done Special Option for Trigger-Guard

[Razor18]

I know trigger guard is there in real life, but even Casmo said in his video you only need to lift it with your finger (spring loaded) and pull the trigger. THis extra function and pushbutton (now in the game) to lift the guard to be able to fire is a bit overkill I think, and more importantly takes away another  button from other, more useful joystick functions especially for those, who do not have the most sophisticated HOTAS with a ton of buttons on it.

Thanks for looking into it.

[FalcoGer]

I agree. It's quite annoying to have to bind a button for it. a special option to disable it (as in you can press the trigger anyway) would be nice.

[BIGNEWY]

Its being discussed internally. 

For now this is a wish list item. 

thank you

[SCPanda]

20 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Its being discussed internally. 

For now this is a wish list item. 

thank you

I don't really see the need for discussion but thanks for passing out to the team. Please point out to the team that almost no consumer joystick on the market has a trigger guard. Removing it or being able to disable it in speical option would be really user-friendly. Realistic or not, DCS is a consumer PC sim afterall, not for military. 

4 hours ago, Razor18 said:

I know trigger guard is there in real life, but even Casmo said in his video you only need to lift it with your finger (spring loaded) and pull the trigger. THis extra function and pushbutton (now in the game) to lift the guard to be able to fire is a bit overkill I think, and more importantly takes away another  button from other, more useful joystick functions especially for those, who do not have the most sophisticated HOTAS with a ton of buttons on it.

Thanks for looking into it.

I agree. Trigger guard as a key is overkill. It's like having a key to turn the door handle CW, a key to pull the door, and another key to turn the door handle CCW to be able to close the cockpit door. Over-realism is not what DCS needs. At the end of the day, it's a game on Steam. 

[Hoirtel]

If left in, some sort of visual indication of it being up or down would be helpful. Not quite sure how that would work. Maybe a coloured spot on the top  of the cyclic?

[QuiGon]

14 minutes ago, SCPanda said:

I agree. Trigger guard as a key is overkill. It's like having a key to turn the door handle CW, a key to pull the door, and another key to turn the door handle CCW to be able to close the cockpit door. Over-realism is not what DCS needs. At the end of the day, it's a game on Steam. 

You're not flying the M2000C, are you?

Edited March 21, 2022 by QuiGon

[Floydii]

2 hours ago, SCPanda said:

I don't really see the need for discussion but thanks for passing out to the team.

Jeez, do you want them to do it or not? 

[DaWu]

Needs to go. Waste of joystick keybind and no visual animation in the cockpit. Just confuses everyone especially new pilots

[SCPanda]

16 hours ago, QuiGon said:

You're not flying the M2000C, are you?

 

Ha! The pain being a Mirage pilot in DCS. 

2 hours ago, DaWu said:

Just confuses everyone especially new pilots

I sincerely struggled figuring out how to fire my weapons until I watched Casmo's video, where he talked about the trigger guard and why it needs to be removed in DCS. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by SCPanda

[Rongor]

On 3/21/2022 at 11:28 AM, SCPanda said:

it's a game on Steam. 

While I can agree to the unquoted rest of your argument in this very post you made, these quoted words above hopefully will never be a guideline for the simulation depth of this great and unique study sim.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Rongor

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I just bound it to the flip-up trigger on my MT-50 stick. It works very well, since I am already used to it from the Ka-50.
And even in jets I have bound that flip-up to master arm

[Dagobert666]

Hello everyone..
Apache's trigger guard is killing me.

-There is no indication whether it is open or closed. Neither visual nor audio. It happens all the time that the Trigger Guard messes up a completely correctly executed attack. Just because he's still closed. But there is no information about it in advance. You only find out when you press the trigger. This is frustrating.

-My joystick doesn't have a trigger guard so I have to press a key on the keyboard once every time. This is neither realistic nor immersive. It's just annoying. A completely unnecessary keystroke

I understand that Apache has something like that and that you also want to simulate it. But I bet more than 90% of all DCS players don't have a trigger guard on their HOTAS. So to simulate that is a "Schildbürgerstreich" as we like to say in Germany. A Action that foolishly fails in its proper or original purpose...

MY SUGGESTION: An option in the "SPECIAL" menu where you can set the trigger guard to be open automatically when you start the simulation (cold as well as hot)

Please ED! This is really so frustrating.

[Chappy500]

I could see how it is frustrating, I've done it several times myself.  And being a newb at helo flying, I don't get many consistent attack passes yet so to miss out....yeah that sucks .  What I have done is started to implement it into my takeoff and landing routines.  Once I am ready to taxi/takeoff I immediately hit the keybind to "remove" the guard after releasing my park brake, and then during RTB right as I start my landing checklist I hit it again to "safe" it.  That way I don't have to worry about it if I would get jumped in route to an objective or have to do something on the fly. 

[javelina1]

I share the same thoughts/feedback OP!  It is a little frustrating...

[Baaz]

You don't mention what kind of joystick you're using, but if it has a two-stage trigger like the TMWH I use, you can bind the first stage to open the trigger guard, and second stage pulls the trigger.  

[Aphelion079]

Yes the trigger guard button is useless for gaming - i know it may exist in real life but I just end up binding it to space and that is the FIRST thing I hit after un-pausing.

[petsild]

For all modules, I use the shift button plus the trigger.

The next phase is a weapons test, one dose is enough and you will never be frustrated again.

[Dagobert666]

6 hours ago, Baaz said:

You don't mention what kind of joystick you're using, but if it has a two-stage trigger like the TMWH I use, you can bind the first stage to open the trigger guard, and second stage pulls the trigger.  

 

4 hours ago, Aphelion079 said:

Yes the trigger guard button is useless for gaming - i know it may exist in real life but I just end up binding it to space and that is the FIRST thing I hit after un-pausing.

 

1 hour ago, petsild said:

For all modules, I use the shift button plus the trigger.

The next phase is a weapons test, one dose is enough and you will never be frustrated again.

Thanks for the answers and suggestions.


However, they are all workarounds. I can think of such workarounds as well. Auto hokey, scripting, forced double binding all possibilities to solve the problem, but Unfortunately clumsily.

I want a real solution from ED. In a simulation, you not only have to depict reality as well as possible. No, you also have to consider the limitations of the user.
ED has already shown that they understand this by adding 3 different trim modes and an option to hide the IHADS monocle for non VR users.

That is why I am confident that a correct and solid solution can also be found here.

[ARM505]

100% agree on it being a 'special options' menu item, and defaulting it to 'OFF/OPEN' would save many forum posts.

 

I even have a trigger guard on my stick, and still find it a PITA.

[Hippo]

On 4/18/2022 at 5:12 PM, Dagobert666 said:

"Schildbürgerstreich"

Love it.  If only I could pronounce it.  I am convinced that ED have an employee whose job title is Head of Schildbürgerstreich Opportunities; he appears to be quite a busy chap, as examples of his work can be found all over DCS.

See also:  "What?! Having a button in the controller options so you can set the afterburner position on the throttle axis?  How ridiculous.  Over my dead body. Nobody could possibly want that."

Edited April 25, 2022 by Hippo

[Gruman]

Agreed. No need to have it "forced". A special option would solve it easely. Thanks.

[shagrat]

I have to agree, the real life trigger guard is spring loaded, you feel(!) it blocking the trigger and need to push it aside with your index finger to reach the trigger under it. If you remove the finger from the trigger the guard snaps back in place. (See linked video on a similar guard switch on the Blackhawk, watch at 1:18:02 ).

So as no Joystick/HOTAS/Cyclic on the consumer market has that kind of springloaded trigger guard, even the "open/close" we currently have, is more a mock-up of the real functionality.

I guess most people with a dual stage trigger already sacrifice the first detent to "open trigger guard" so, no matter the position, if they pull the trigger to the second detent, the goddamn thing is opened automatically...

So, yes, an option to allow for an automatically opened trigger guard, when you pull the trigger is a pretty great idea. Keep in mind, in the real aircraft, to get to the trigger, you will have pushed the guard aside, because it can't be flipped "open and closed", but needs to be pushed away to reach the trigger.

https://youtu.be/1b1LMFihSWs

[Yeager51]

The trigger guard as I understand it is simply lifted by the triggering finger as the trigger is pulled.  In essence it is never open or closed.

[Hoirtel]

1 hour ago, shagrat said:

I have to agree, the real life trigger guard is spring loaded, you feel(!) it blocking the trigger and need to push it aside with your index finger to reach the trigger under it. If you remove the finger from the trigger the guard snaps back in place. (See linked video on a similar guard switch on the Blackhawk, watch at 1:18:02 ).

So as no Joystick/HOTAS/Cyclic on the consumer market has that kind of springloaded trigger guard, even the "open/close" we currently have, is more a mock-up of the real function

I guess most people with a dual stage trigger already sacrifice the first detent to "open trigger guard" so, no matter the position, if they pull the trigger to the second detent, the goddamn thing is opened automatically...

So, yes, an option to allow for an automatically opened trigger guard, when you pull the trigger is a pretty great idea. Keep in mind, in the real aircraft, to get to the trigger, you will have pushed the guard aside, because it can't be flipped "open and closed", but needs to be pushed away to reach the trigger.

If it's bound to the first detent won't it close again the second time you go to use the trigger? Otherwise that would be a great idea!

[shagrat]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Hoirtel:

If it's bound to the first detent won't it close again the second time you go to use the trigger? Otherwise that would be a great idea!

There are 3 different keybinds. "Open/Close" switches between open and close and separate "Open" and "Close" keybinds, so if you use the "Open" only it will not close again.

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Yeager51:

The trigger guard as I understand it is simply lifted by the triggering finger as the trigger is pulled.  In essence it is never open or closed.

Exactly, it is pushed aside when reaching for the trigger, as demonstrated in the Blackhawk tour video.