tower59 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Finally have a PC up and running and would appreciate your current recommendations on VR devices for a machine dedicated exclusively to DCS & MSFS. The market changes so quickly, I wanted to poll the experts here. Want to be able to read cockpit gauges and have reasonable frame rate (so I don't throw up!), price is secondary consideration at this point. Appreciate your suggestions. Thanks!!! 3090/12th gen Intel 12700K/64 GB RAM Intel 12th Gen i7 12700K/RTX 3090/64 GB RAM 3600 CL16 DDR4/WD Black SN850 2 TB x 2/Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280mm/Z690 AORUS Elite MOBO/Seasonic 1300W gold PSU/Reverb G2/F/A-18C Hornet FLY NAVY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruachan Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Funny you ask... because, I also just ordered a new rig with basically the same specs. I've already got an Oculus Rift S, and I think it's great, but I'm considering upgrading the VR unit too. There is a good article here that discusses optimal setups and also the notion of VR units that you may want to read: https://www.gamersbynight.com/dcs-pc-setup-rig/ and an in-depth review of headsets here: https://www.gamersbynight.com/best-vr-dcs/ Of course, nothing beats the recommendations from members on this site -Cru 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven (Elysian Angel) Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 You can't go wrong with the Reverb G2 in my opinion. It's a bit of a faff to set up initially (there are links to how-to guides here on the forum), and the software side is worse than Oculus, but the hardware itself is brilliant. Spoiler Ryzen 9 5900X | 64GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600 | Gigabyte RX6900XT | ASUS ROG Strix X570-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 960Pro 1TB NMVe | HP Reverb G2 Pro Flight Trainer Puma | VIRPIL MT-50CM2+3 base / CM2 x2 grip with 200 mm S-curve extension + CM3 throttle + CP2/3 + FSSB R3L + VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | TPR rudder pedals OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS "HIGH" preset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaMike Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) I found this influential I wound up getting a G2, it was on sale for like $450 which made it a steal and I really like it. Problem with the G2 is, the interface between SVR and WMR. There are a lot of moving parts, lots of ways to screw up the install. You would think there would be no way to screw up the 3090 but as you can see there are plenty of posts saying stuff like "wuh I'm only getting 10fps wtf" etc. Flip side is, people make it more complicated than it needs to be. You don't have to do that. The interface between SVR and WMR is very inefficient but you do have enough horsepower to where you shouldn't notice it. The G2 has a narrow sweet spot but I feel that's OK for DCS. I was this close to getting a Quest 2. Oculus software is highly evolved and personally I felt its motion smoothing was superior to WMR's. I was using a Rift S back then, so perhaps that's apples and oranges. Also I didn't have Zuckerberg looking over my shoulder. I don't do Light Sabre so didn't need that functionality. . Pimax 5K is about the same number of pixels as G2 but with a wider FOV. Sweet spot should be wider, but not quite as sweet (fewer pixels per degree). Pick your poison. Pimax 8K sounds awesome on paper, but question in my mind is, whether the 3090 is even enough to drive it at native resolution. You'd have to decide how you feel about undersampling. I don't mind it in MSFS but don't like it much in DCS. Dunno about Pimax software, whether or not it's a PIA, I'd check on that. Growling loves his. I think the varjo aero is the wave of the future, sounds like it's really "early access" and it's expensive. I found this entertaining (same dude reviewed the Aero later). If I had the money for a varjo and a 3090, and could live with the external tracking, that's what I would do. But I LOVE fiddling with things, YMMV. Here's Tyriel's comparison. Hopefully they've done something about that chromatic aberration. G2 has the bang for the buck, especially if you can get a deal on it. Quest 2 has the ease of use. Varjo has the cutting edge tech. Personally I'm not a fan of Pimax. That's my take on it. Edited March 21, 2022 by DeltaMike 2 1 Ryzen 5600X (stock), GBX570, 32Gb RAM, AMD 6900XT (reference), G2, WInwing Orion HOTAS, T-flight rudder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick33 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 I have had a number of headsets and currently have Reverb G1 and a family Quest 2. The Quest 2 is a great all rounder if you want to do wireless standing stuff as well as seated sims but if it is primarily for DCS I would also recommend the G2. AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKA_Clutter Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Have had the Oculus CV1, Oculus Rift S, and the HP Reverb G2. Love the G2 for it's clarity IN THE CENTER. I don't have much fo a problem from side to side to others have. The clarity is far above the Rifts S. Its FOV is a little narrower than the Rift S. I am very happy with it. ---------------- AKA_Clutter Win 10 Pro, Intel i7 8700k @4.6 GHz, EVGA RTX 3080 FTW, Ultra 64 GB G.Skill DDR4 3600 RAM, Acer 27" flat screen, Oculus Rift S, HP Reverb G2, CH Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Rudder Pedals HOTAS, TM Warthog HOTAS, MFG Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5 Pro w/Vector Expansion, PointCTRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TZeer Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Had the Quest 2 first. But after so much rave about the G2 I had to test it. Glad I did. Better clarity. Sweetspot is actually quite ok with version 2. Also much better comfort out of the box from the G2 then Quest 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, tower59 said: Finally have a PC up and running and would appreciate your current recommendations on VR devices for a machine dedicated exclusively to DCS & MSFS. The market changes so quickly, I wanted to poll the experts here. Want to be able to read cockpit gauges and have reasonable frame rate (so I don't throw up!), price is secondary consideration at this point. Appreciate your suggestions. Thanks!!! 3090/12th gen Intel 12700K/64 GB RAM IMHO the absolute best headset on the market today is the Varjo Aero. However it is at a steep price point and even more so considering you would also need the Steam trackers to go along with it. And possibly the controllers, which really jacks the price up. But oh man the sharp image clarity and huge sweet spot ( probably 95% of the total lens area) is something to see. The developer of the Open XR Toolkit for WMR which is very popular with the MSFS 2020 crowd will be releasing next month an update that will support the Foveated Rendering and Eye Tracking of the Aero with that sim. Which is a pretty big deal. I have had the Rift S, Reverb G2, Vive Pro 2, and Index. IMHO the Aero blows them away. But again comes at a pretty high price considering the total cost of entry . Second to that I would not hesitate to recommend heartily the Reverb G2. Great headset at it's price point especially with no extra stuff needed to purchase. And using Open XR Developer Tools for WMR (Which the Reverb G2 uses) it runs really nice in that other flight sim, and will perform quite well in DCS with your rig. So if you want to splurge and go big and not mind spending a bunch of money, the Aero with the Index tracking system is by far the best imho and likely will remain the best for a a while. If you want a really good experience with a much more economical but good headset, the Reverb G2 is the way to go - IMHO. Edit: Need to mention the Aero you would be looking at a wait, currently seems to be around 3-4 months. Reverb G2 you should be able to get right away. Edited March 21, 2022 by dburne 1 Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormeaten Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Take all the best on loan. Buy 10 years food reserves and build Man cave deep into the ground. Nuclear winter could be long lasting and new hardware and DCS version will not be released anyway. So you will be good for next 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tower59 Posted March 23, 2022 Author Share Posted March 23, 2022 Thanks for all of the responses- my son & I found the HP Reverb G2 on sale for under $499+ free shipping at the HP Store and figured it was a sign, so we should be joining the VR community any day. Will be looking through the optimization steps on the forum as we try to figure out how to make this thing work smoothly- appreciate any suggestions to that end. Gamersbynight site looks like a good resource-thank you for that. We are PC novices so we'll take all the help we can get! What do you guys recommend for frame per second/CPU heat & frequency tracking utility as we adjust settings? Thanks again! 1 Intel 12th Gen i7 12700K/RTX 3090/64 GB RAM 3600 CL16 DDR4/WD Black SN850 2 TB x 2/Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280mm/Z690 AORUS Elite MOBO/Seasonic 1300W gold PSU/Reverb G2/F/A-18C Hornet FLY NAVY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CybrSlydr Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 On 3/21/2022 at 2:33 PM, AKA_Clutter said: Have had the Oculus CV1, Oculus Rift S, and the HP Reverb G2. Love the G2 for it's clarity IN THE CENTER. I don't have much fo a problem from side to side to others have. The clarity is far above the Rifts S. Its FOV is a little narrower than the Rift S. I am very happy with it. Glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed the off-center clarity of the G2 is not good. Have to turn your head rather than move your eyes. I just tell myself that the headset is mimicking your eyeballs and your head movement is the eyeball moving - like fuzzy peripheral vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekSpeare Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) Get a good quality used Reverb G1. The G2 isn't any better (I have both). Anything better is going to cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ FD2020 is crap in VR no matter what you use. Edited March 23, 2022 by DerekSpeare 1 Derek "BoxxMann" Speare derekspearedesigns.com 25,000+ Gaming Enthusiasts Trust DSD Components to Perform! i7-11700k 4.9g | RTX3080ti (finally!)| 64gb Ram | 2TB NVME PCIE4| Reverb G1 | CH Pro Throt/Fighterstick Pro | 4 DSD Boxes Falcon XT/AT/3.0/4.0 | LB2 | DCS | LOMAC Been Flight Simming Since 1988! Useful VR settings and tips for DCS HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaMike Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, tower59 said: Thanks for all of the responses- my son & I found the HP Reverb G2 on sale for under $499+ free shipping at the HP Store and figured it was a sign, so we should be joining the VR community any day. Will be looking through the optimization steps on the forum as we try to figure out how to make this thing work smoothly- appreciate any suggestions to that end. Gamersbynight site looks like a good resource-thank you for that. We are PC novices so we'll take all the help we can get! What do you guys recommend for frame per second/CPU heat & frequency tracking utility as we adjust settings? Thanks again! SCORE! Yeah that's what happened to me. I was adding up all the stuff I would need to buy to make the Quest 2 DCS-capable, and figured I'd save money with the G2. In spite of the aggravation -- and there's a lot -- I'm glad I did it. Thud's guide is the most comprehensive to getting started -- tuning is another matter -- but it's not easy to follow and I would not recommend even looking at it until your headset arrives. Print it out and follow the instructions as you go. My advice is, don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. Chunk it out. First, get your headset up and running. Go through the WMR setup and try to enjoy it. WMR is actually pretty cool. Plenty of work for your first day. Then, get Steam VR up and running. Just get yourself to the point where you can play around in Steam Home. This is pure drudgery but in the end it'll be worth it. Thud's guide is good here. Plenty of work for your second day. Finally, just get the thing running in DCS. Set Steam resolution at 80%, pixel density at 1.0, and use the VR presets. Take her for a spin and delight in your accomplishment, which is considerable. Then we'll work on getting you tuned. Nobody ever listens to this advice. They get themselves all twisted up -- resolution settings going every-which-way; every slider slammed all the way to the right; umpteen mods they don't understand (which is fair enough, nobody understands those things) -- and then log on to the forums to gripe about ED's VR optimization. Don't be that guy. Smooth is fast. Edited March 23, 2022 by DeltaMike 1 Ryzen 5600X (stock), GBX570, 32Gb RAM, AMD 6900XT (reference), G2, WInwing Orion HOTAS, T-flight rudder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick33 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 The only thing I would add is you will need Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR - it is the link between WMR and SteamVR and sometimes gets overlooked when setting up https://store.steampowered.com/app/719950/Windows_Mixed_Reality_for_SteamVR/ 1 AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 With your specs and that bad boy 3090. 100-100-1.0 ALIENWARE R11 - I9 10900KF @ 5.1 GHz - M.2 NVMe 2TB - RTX3090 - XFURY 64GB -3400 MHz RAM Monitor AW3420DW @ 120Hz - Virpil CM3 Throttle - TM TPR Rudder pedals - Virpil CM2 w/TM Hornet Stick Center - Monstertech Deck Mounts RealSimulator FSSB-R3 Lightning Base w/ F16SRGRH SideStick - VR user / Varjo Aero - Big Thx to mbucchia Start Date April 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaMike Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Burt said: With your specs and that bad boy 3090. 100-100-1.0 Agree. Still possible to make it choke maxing everything out. Gotta start with a baseline imo Edited March 24, 2022 by DeltaMike 1 Ryzen 5600X (stock), GBX570, 32Gb RAM, AMD 6900XT (reference), G2, WInwing Orion HOTAS, T-flight rudder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glide Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) On 3/22/2022 at 5:19 PM, tower59 said: What do you guys recommend for frame per second/CPU heat & frequency tracking utility as we adjust settings? Congrats! I have my G2 set to 60hz with motion repo ON. This causes it to sync at 30fps which is fine by me. I run my PD in the VR tab at .5, and with this resolution I can add MSAA x4 SSAA 1.5, and more. You need to sharpen it up if you run low resolution like PD .5. I just gave the latest release "the Beirut test" (hard turns over the city at low alt), and experienced zero ground stutters. This is dogfight quality performance. If you are just cruising around at altitude you can turn up the PD. G2, 3080Ti, i7 11gen Edited March 24, 2022 by Glide typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachmonkey Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Varjo Aero. nothing beats its clarity and sweet spot. G2 and VP2 (I have both of these as well) are collecting dust, trying to sell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, peachmonkey said: Varjo Aero. nothing beats its clarity and sweet spot. G2 and VP2 (I have both of these as well) are collecting dust, trying to sell them. Probably though out of price range of many, but yeah it is incredible for sure. My Vive Pro 2 and Reverb G2 are retired. I would recommend Aero to only the most serious of VR enthusiast with the funds to be able to do so. Edited March 24, 2022 by dburne 1 Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachmonkey Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 15 hours ago, dburne said: Probably though out of price range of many, but yeah it is incredible for sure. My Vive Pro 2 and Reverb G2 are retired. I would recommend Aero to only the most serious of VR enthusiast with the funds to be able to do so. did you try your AERO with OpenXR in DCS yet? It makes the the performance "silky smooth" (Zohan ), gets rid of the jitters.. I made it in to a separate topic in VR forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, peachmonkey said: did you try your AERO with OpenXR in DCS yet? It makes the the performance "silky smooth" (Zohan ), gets rid of the jitters.. I made it in to a separate topic in VR forum. No I won't as long as it requires a Mod to get it to work. I see just way to much faffing about going on with guys trying to run Mods to get a little better performance. I much prefer to spend my time flying than tweaking. Plus I just have a no Mods policy for my DCS install. Would love to see ED add Open XR natively. I do use Open XR in MSFS 2020 which supports it natively with very good results. So far though I can't complain, my Aero is maintaining a min of 45 fps or better with DCS and it is pretty darn smooth for me. This is in single player campaign flying in the Hornet, and now Apache training. Really surprised at how well it is doing for me in DCS with no motion smoothing. Edited March 25, 2022 by dburne 1 Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachmonkey Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, dburne said: No I won't as long as it requires a Mod to get it to work. I see just way to much faffing about going on with guys trying to run Mods to get a little better performance. I much prefer to spend my time flying than tweaking. Plus I just have a no Mods policy for my DCS install. Would love to see ED add Open XR natively. I do use Open XR in MSFS 2020 which supports it natively with very good results. So far though I can't complain, my Aero is maintaining a min of 45 fps or better with DCS and it is pretty darn smooth for me. This is in single player campaign flying in the Hornet, and now Apache training. Really surprised at how well it is doing for me in DCS with no motion smoothing. Remember you were using OpenComposite to replace Oculus's runtime? It's exactly like that. It's not a DCS mod. It's a "replacement of the SteamVR" mod. You're missing out on smoothness. There are no spikes in frame times so the overall performance is very very smooth. Edited March 26, 2022 by peachmonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 1 minute ago, peachmonkey said: Remember you were using OpenComposite to replace Oculus's runtime? It's exactly like that. It's not a DCS mod. It's a replacement of the SteamVR mod. You're missing out on smoothness. Hmm interesting, will give some thought. I thought it was modding DCS itself, if that is not the case maybe I will check out. Although I am pretty pleased with my performance now. I still wish DCS would offer native Open XR support. Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachmonkey Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, dburne said: Hmm interesting, will give some thought. I thought it was modding DCS itself, if that is not the case maybe I will check out. Although I am pretty pleased with my performance now. I still wish DCS would offer native Open XR support. the 'mod' portion is replacement of the "openvr_api.dll" that DCS comes with another version (from the opencompositeACC) that performs the intercept of the OpenVR calls and sends it to the openXR framework of Varjo Base. The next DCS update will overwrite the openvr_api.dll so that file needs to be replaced/update after every DCS update. So, technically, you're running DCS using the native's Varjo XR framework, just hacked thru the openvr pipeline. edit: I'll stop replying here as to not highjack the thread. Edited March 26, 2022 by peachmonkey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, peachmonkey said: the 'mod' portion is replacement of the "openvr_api.dll" that DCS comes with another version (from the opencompositeACC) that performs the intercept of the OpenVR calls and sends it to the openXR framework of Varjo Base. The next DCS update will overwrite the openvr_api.dll so that file needs to be replaced/update after every DCS update. So, technically, you're running DCS using the native's Varjo XR framework, just hacked thru the openvr pipeline. edit: I'll stop replying here as to not highjack the thread. Ok thanks much I may well check it out. 1 Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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