Potential input issue with collective

[jetstumpy]

I've been using my Virpil Mongoose CM3 throttle as my collective, and with the physical axis of the throttle all the way at "0%", the game/apache reads it as 30 percent torque. As I apply more collective using the throttle,  when I get to about 20-25 percent of the Virpil Throttle's throw, the in-game torque starts quickly drops down to 15 percent, then jumps back up to 30 percent torque when the Virpil throttle is about a quarter of the way through its throw. I'm not sure if this is how it's supposd to work, but it feels off to me. Appreciate the advice in advance. 

[greenbelt]

I have the same throttle and similar problem.

I don't know why these jumps occur  but with the ka-50 it doesn't happen.

Edited March 21, 2022 by greenbelt

[KeyserSoze62]

Same throttle and I am experiencing this as well.

[Greyman]

Does that throttle have a button at the lower end of its movement and might this button be mapped to a non-axis throttle command?

[jetstumpy]

It does not, nothing shows up in either the virpil software or DCS as a button at the lower end of the movement! 

[frostycab]

That's a bit worrying. Mine is arriving next week. Have you tried recalibrating through the Virpil software?

[jetstumpy]

4 minutes ago, frostycab said:

That's a bit worrying. Mine is arriving next week. Have you tried recalibrating through the Virpil software?

I have recalibrated, started a new profile and updated firmware. I noticed visually on this video from Wags his torque percentage does the same thing. 

 

[Gierasimov]

I use X-56 throttle and I also see the torque jumps so this is NOT about Virpil gear. 

I also noticed the torque value also changes when you move the rudder. I know too little about the Apache yet to understand if this is intentional or not. 

Track attached, maybe @BIGNEWY could let us know?

TRQ.trk

[jnr4817]

In the dcs controls axis menu is the throttle option slider ticked?

I use the k51 collective which is virpil internals and don’t have this issue. But my collective is set as a slider. Also this can happen if the axis direction has been change on the virpil software itself then changed again in the dcs software. Learned that the hard way. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by jnr4817

[Gierasimov]

Just now, jnr4817 said:

In the dcs controls axis menu is the throttle option slider ticked?

I had it ticked and now tested without slider selected. The track I posted is without slider. But I have the same when slider is selected. 

[jetstumpy]

I tried it with and without slider toggled as well, no change. 

[Gierasimov]

Also looking up the manual, IHADSS Cruise Mode Symbology:

Engine Torque (TQ). Displays the highest torque of the two engines. When a greater than 12% split occurs between the engine torque values, the torque digital readout will flash. A box will be displayed around the torque at 98% or higher

[jetstumpy]

I've also plugged in my left-handed Virpil stick, and tried the collective bound to the Y axis of that - experienced the same issue. 

[Greyman]

Maybe check this out.  It would appear that the throttle might implement a reverse thrust, which from a certain point, makes DCS think the throttle is increasing the more you pull it back.  

[jnr4817]

Something else with virpil stuff that messes up is windows recognition.

Don't recalibrate with windows, but you can go into the windows usb game controller setup and reset to default.

This doesn't mess with firmware, but resets how windows sees your device.

I have had to do this also to get the axis working correctly.

[jetstumpy]

18 hours ago, jnr4817 said:

Something else with virpil stuff that messes up is windows recognition.

Don't recalibrate with windows, but you can go into the windows usb game controller setup and reset to default.

This doesn't mess with firmware, but resets how windows sees your device.

I have had to do this also to get the axis working correctly.

I think this helped me! I seem to have a much more natural collective input now!

[GoodHope]

On 3/24/2022 at 7:01 PM, jnr4817 said:

Something else with virpil stuff that messes up is windows recognition.

Don't recalibrate with windows, but you can go into the windows usb game controller setup and reset to default.

This doesn't mess with firmware, but resets how windows sees your device.

I have had to do this also to get the axis working correctly.

This did not solve the issue for me so I'm not sure we can call it solved.  Curious to know if anyone else is still having the problem?  I know @Wags uses the CM3 so wonder if he's also experiencing it?

I've tried everything I can think to do (and probably a couple others).  I've changed USB ports, calibrated multiple times, reset the device in windows, made the throttle an "slider", reversed it (from pull to push), and I even moved the collective to the axis I normally use for flaps.  Nothing has worked to this point.  The only way I can keep my torque value from jumping all over the place is to advance it VERY slowly.  Otherwise it jumps wildly up and down before eventually settling after a few seconds.

[jnr4817]

I am not sure what it’s called but I demean sme saying the 64 have some way or predicting how much torque to use given movement of the collective and will adjust accordingly. For example if you go low and slow it usually lowers and raises the torque accordingly. If you yanks and cranks it will make the torque act eradicate.
 

also what curves are you using? Might want to adjust to give your better use if the limited range of motion the CM3 has acting as a collective. There is a good video about this.  

[GoodHope]

31 minutes ago, jnr4817 said:

I am not sure what it’s called but I demean sme saying the 64 have some way or predicting how much torque to use given movement of the collective and will adjust accordingly. For example if you go low and slow it usually lowers and raises the torque accordingly. If you yanks and cranks it will make the torque act eradicate.
 

also what curves are you using? Might want to adjust to give your better use if the limited range of motion the CM3 has acting as a collective. There is a good video about this.  

Good input and I'll look for the video, but just to clarify; I'm not yanking and cranking the collective--I'm giving smooth and steady input, but regardless the torque varies wildly.

[jnr4817]

1 hour ago, GoodHope said:

Good input and I'll look for the video, but just to clarify; I'm not yanking and cranking the collective--I'm giving smooth and steady input, but regardless the torque varies wildly.

Ok, that’s good to nail it down. Are you using any curves? I know a couple of YouTube videos mention using a large curve to help mitigate Jumps. Have you watched this one ?