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MiG-29S & J-11A - Launch Warning produced from R-77 launch in STT.


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On 7/28/2022 at 5:03 AM, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

N001s that can fire the R-77 have modified channels for guiding it and the symbology even is different..

The N001s that can fire the R-77 have a bypass channel that allows incoming radar data to be switched to a new all-digital processing system. When one of the new modes (several A2G modes along with 1 additional A2A mode providing R-77 compatibility) is selected, radar data is sent to the new subsystems, but if an old mode is selected the data is processed as before by the existing radar hardware.

Quite honestly I’m not even certain the R-77 can be launched STT with the new mode. 

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On 8/1/2022 at 11:33 PM, GGTharos said:

Great, thanks for the info on SNP2.   That was cool.

The really funny part is how you accuse me of losing the plot, when the subject was, let me quote you:

And this is exactly what I responded to.   So why don't you go ahead and show anything that isn't conjecture and fantasy regarding RWRs not picking up an ARH launched in STT.

In that case you're barking up the wrong tree.

Since around late 2020, it has been ED's interpretation that these signals even in STT are discrete in how they work in digital active missiles like the AIM-120 & SD-10/PL-12
The R-77 should behave the same, or the change should be rolled back on all planes.

This thread is to prove wrong the assumption that some people at ED might've had that the R-77 integration was sort of jerry rigged and almost SARH like.
or maybe they just forgot. (it seems to be specific to the missile not the platform)

7 hours ago, Ironhand said:

The N001s that can fire the R-77 have a bypass channel that allows incoming radar data to be switched to a new all-digital processing system. When one of the new modes (several A2G modes along with 1 additional A2A mode providing R-77 compatibility) is selected, radar data is sent to the new subsystems, but if an old mode is selected the data is processed as before by the existing radar hardware.

Quite honestly I’m not even certain the R-77 can be launched STT with the new mode. 

See above


Edited by TaxDollarsAtWork
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On 8/4/2022 at 10:49 PM, Ironhand said:

The N001s that can fire the R-77 have a bypass channel that allows incoming radar data to be switched to a new all-digital processing system. When one of the new modes (several A2G modes along with 1 additional A2A mode providing R-77 compatibility) is selected, radar data is sent to the new subsystems, but if an old mode is selected the data is processed as before by the existing radar hardware.

Bingo!

Thats precisely the impression I got as well reading about the N001VE/P radar upgrade on NiiP's website(which unfortunately doesn't seem to be available anymore). Namely that the original radar "infrastructure" is retained for the original armament package, while compatibility with the R-77/RVV-AE is provided via a by-pass channel to a completely separate subsystem with a new radar mode for the RVV-AE(and only that). IIRC N001 upgrades can be supplied in an A2A only option(with just RVV-AE addition) as well as one, which as you said, also includes serveral A2G modes/compatiblity with guided A2G munitions.

On 8/4/2022 at 10:49 PM, Ironhand said:

Quite honestly I’m not even certain the R-77 can be launched STT with the new mode. 

No I don't think so either. The above does not suggest that there is any integration between the new and old radar modes such as the ability to use individual modes/submodes of the old radar routine for the RVV-AE, so the question is whether the new A2A targeting routine for the RVV-AE includes an optional STT mode.....which I doubt(why would it?). 

There seems to be a common misperception that the RVV-AE could be deployed via the existing N019/N001 radar modes and that the new mode  is merely for providing simultaneous engagement of two targets(without automatic transistion to STT).  But according to the description of the N001VE/P, it is a requirement for using the weapon and "dual targeting" is not even a standard feature of the mode, but only something that it can be expanded to if desired  by the customer.

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  • 5 months later...
On 8/2/2022 at 2:08 PM, okopanja said:

I think only indication should be painting of radar in TWS2, if this is what you meant?

Good question..in the MIG-29S and J-11 firing a R-77 in normal TWS switches to ATK mode (STT?) wich i allways tought that must be alerting the target like a STT lock .. however in TWS2 the radar doesnt seem to go into ATK but continues tracking both?

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2 hours ago, SparrowLT said:

Good question..in the MIG-29S and J-11 firing a R-77 in normal TWS switches to ATK mode (STT?) wich i allways tought that must be alerting the target like a STT lock .. however in TWS2 the radar doesnt seem to go into ATK but continues tracking both?

Yes, much like SAM mode on F-16, yet this launch produces instant missile warning...

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  • ED Team

Ok so TLDR... what is the consensus on this report, are you guys still expecting this to be reported?

"When firing the R-77 in STT the enemy receives a missile launch warning when this should only happen when the missile seeker has gone active."

I let it go too long and then a discussion broke out 🙂

 

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Any radar guided weapons shot in STT should produce a missile launch warning.   This shouldn't be an R-77 thing or well that one's different than this one.  Either way it should be consistent.

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В 22.03.2022 в 17:16, TaxDollarsAtWork сказал:

When firing the R-77 in STT the enemy receives a missile launch warning when this should only happen when the missile seeker has gone active.

If I'm not mistaken this is how other digital actives are modeled in game such as the PL-12 and AMRAAM

Until then the target should only see it is being locked.

 

Is this a problem with the Radars in game turning the CW Illuminator on or going into PDI on even though the R-77 does not need it

 

Please let me know if this is an N019 / N001 bug or feature

 

Radars N019 and N001 switching to the quasi-continuous illumination in the STT mode at missile launch. This fact is interpreted by RWR as a missile launch.

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1 hour ago, Chizh said:

Radars N019 and N001 switching to the quasi-continuous illumination in the STT mode at missile launch. This fact is interpreted by RWR as a missile launch.

But do N019 and N001 radars updated for R-77/RVV-AE compatibility even have the ability to launch this missile from STT?. From my understanding this can only be done via a by-pass channel to a new "add-on" radar mode specifically for the purpose.

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8 минут назад, Seaeagle сказал:

But do N019 and N001 radars updated for R-77/RVV-AE compatibility even have the ability to launch this missile from STT?. From my understanding this can only be done via a by-pass channel to a new "add-on" radar mode specifically for the purpose.

According to our information, the R-77 missile is used in the STT mode, as well as all other AA missiles.

Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу

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1 минуту назад, okopanja сказал:

TWS2 — это не STT. Почему RWR срабатывает именно в этом случае, а не в SAM->DTT?

The question was about STT

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4 hours ago, Chizh said:

The question was about STT

Well the question was STT, but we brought TWS and TWS2 where there is also no indication of missile launch. For TWS transition on launch is likely STT, but in case of TWS2 it needs two track to aircrafts, and this means slewing the attention of radar from on bandit to another, which in turn means that R-77 does not really need permanent STT lock to guide until pitbull.


Edited by okopanja
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16 hours ago, okopanja said:

Well the question was STT, but we brought TWS and TWS2 where there is also no indication of missile launch. For TWS transition on launch is likely STT, but in case of TWS2 it needs two track to aircrafts, and this means slewing the attention of radar from on bandit to another, which in turn means that R-77 does not really need permanent STT lock to guide until pitbull.

 

Please keep on the topic of the bug report, if you have something else make a new report with the appropriate information. Thanks. 

 

It seems Chizh has answered this, I am closing this report. If you have other issues as I said above, a new report with required information. 

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