Additional George AI commands in keybinds (without interface)

[Qnnrad]

Hi, please allow us to map keybinds for every separate George AI command so that we can use them without the AI interface.

Pros of that solution:

- Gives you a choice (always great),
- You can use AI without the interface (immersion),
- All keys are always available to you (no keys block, as currently is with AI interface on),
- You don't have to be aware of the "mode" AI is currently in (in general),
- You can map keys with modifiers, so you don't have to be aware of what "mode" AI is currently in or rotate it to find your desired option,
- You can map commands to additional devices,
- You can create macros and use voice recognition software.

Please support this thread with "+1" and your feedback.
Good luck, fellow pilots!

[Seapiglet]

Agree. To use Voiceattack etc you would need to figure out how to work it with the ‘continuous’ commands like sliding L/R in a hover, but even without that would be good. 

[Qnnrad]

13 minutes ago, ApacheLongbow said:

Agree.

 

Additionally to my points here (which you covered in Point 1), Points 2 and 3 are not only "nice to have", but I find them essential to operate realistics single player scenarios as CPG and I vote for them to be included in the roadmap.

 

I'm sure ED is aware of this, but for everyone hesitating - all improvements in George AI will be beneficial in ALL multicrew modules we have and will have in DCS, including Petrovich Mi-24, Huey and all others. Please comment with your ideas and wishes.

[rickthealone]

100% agree with that ! 

Then we could use software like VoiceAttack to bind keys with vocal command and have a real conversation with our CPG / Pilot ingame 

[SkipCarey]

this is an excellent idea

[frostycab]

43 minutes ago, rickthealone said:

Then we could use software like VoiceAttack to bind keys with vocal command and have a real conversation with our CPG / Pilot ingame 

Can't you do that already? It's been so long since I've used VA, but the only problem with using it for George right now *might* be the long-presses for some of his commands. However. I seem to remember having the ability to adjust timings very precisely within the VA editor, so I'm going to dust it off and have another look. 

The tricky part is going to be getting VA to keep track of what George is set to. I can see myself needing to set up quite a few internal flags, and I guarantee I'll get it all to go  out of sync at some point.

[Qnnrad]

1 hour ago, frostycab said:

Can't you do that already? It's been so long since I've used VA, but the only problem with using it for George right now *might* be the long-presses for some of his commands. However. I seem to remember having the ability to adjust timings very precisely within the VA editor, so I'm going to dust it off and have another look. 

The tricky part is going to be getting VA to keep track of what George is set to. I can see myself needing to set up quite a few internal flags, and I guarantee I'll get it all to go  out of sync at some point.

Yes, we can set VoiceAttack for long presses, and the complexity some of us raised is due to behavior "hold and watch how the marker moves, depress to set on current position". 
But, if we wanted to use VoiceAttack, we could easily set trigger "Turn left 15" (VA holding key for 5 s) and separate "Turn left 30" (VA holding key for 10 s). You experiment once, share on forums and we are all set!

My key point in requesting separate AI commands is exactly what you wrote, and what I see as roadblock - currently you (and your code/macro) MUST KNOW what mode is AI in, pay attention to it or write complex flags and rules which can be easily broken.
If we get separate keybinds, we can easily macro, don't care what mode AI is in, and map all commands how we like, even by replicating modes with modifiers if we wanted (e.g. A W S D for FLY mode commands, Shift+A W S D for CMBT, Ctrl+A W S D for H-B etc.).

It's opening numerous communication-with-AI and optimization options, and it breaks nothing.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Qnnrad

[frostycab]

Just to update things, has anyone seen todays newsletter from ED? It seems they are already working on voice control. Whoop!!!

[Qnnrad]

Yes! I felt like Wags was talking to us somehow ^^
Hope is up!

Edited March 25, 2022 by Qnnrad

[SkipCarey]

Id rather have it native in DCS as Ive always found Voice attack to be unreliable and it tends to screw up when you need it the most, VA is simply not something I would use for mission critical actions.........................

[petsild]

+1

Pls AI commands as separate keys without interface.

[Bailey]

On 3/25/2022 at 10:21 PM, frostycab said:

Can't you do that already? It's been so long since I've used VA, but the only problem with using it for George right now *might* be the long-presses for some of his commands. However. I seem to remember having the ability to adjust timings very precisely within the VA editor, so I'm going to dust it off and have another look. 

The tricky part is going to be getting VA to keep track of what George is set to. I can see myself needing to set up quite a few internal flags, and I guarantee I'll get it all to go  out of sync at some point.

Long presses for actions are fine. I set them to be hold and press for 0.75 seconds. Short presses as 0.25. The crossover for the AI is 0.50 seconds. You don't have to track the state that ED AI is in. It is up to the user to know what state they are in. The benefit of discrete commands is that if you say "George slide right" but you are at 140 kts in flight mode, ideally, he would either say "No can do" or do some other action indicating that it wasn't a proper option in that situation. As it is now George will do the button combination equivalent to sliding right. In this case the result wouldn't be horrible, but I have seen things get out of hand quickly if the wrong commands are used.
 

[Bailey]

On 3/25/2022 at 11:43 PM, Qnnrad said:

Yes, we can set VoiceAttack for long presses, and the complexity some of us raised is due to behavior "hold and watch how the marker moves, depress to set on current position". 
But, if we wanted to use VoiceAttack, we could easily set trigger "Turn left 15" (VA holding key for 5 s) and separate "Turn left 30" (VA holding key for 10 s). You experiment once, share on forums and we are all set!

My key point in requesting separate AI commands is exactly what you wrote, and what I see as roadblock - currently you (and your code/macro) MUST KNOW what mode is AI in, pay attention to it or write complex flags and rules which can be easily broken.
If we get separate keybinds, we can easily macro, don't care what mode AI is in, and map all commands how we like, even by replicating modes with modifiers if we wanted (e.g. A W S D for FLY mode commands, Shift+A W S D for CMBT, Ctrl+A W S D for H-B etc.).

It's opening numerous communication-with-AI and optimization options, and it breaks nothing.

 

VA does not need to know what mode the AI is in unless you are doing error or situational mode context checking. It will do the wrong thing if you say the wrong command, just like pressing a keyboard. Not optimal in many cases, but can be overcome via the GUI provided. 

As for the "Turn left 30 degree" type commands I had successfully done the full 360 degree compass. I has also done a full range of altitudes with commands such as "Climb 40 feet". To my dismay, when I restarted DCS all of my work was wasted. Due to the input repeating lag, the poll rates, the frame rates, etc, The results were nowhere consistent between play sessions on the same machine, same mission, same command. It was quite unfortunate. For my Apache profile (which is now available), I have opted to use commands such as "turn right 4" which is the equivalent of holding the button down for 4 seconds. It is entirely relative, but much more predictable. 

For those wanting to make their own hold commands, beware the possibility of holding and something interrupting VA or DCS. If you use the simple press action in VA it will not release after a disruption. There was someone I was playing with that made such a command for the Enter key (you can see where this is going...) and forgot to make a release bind. They ended up having to restart their computer. You can see my solution for this unlikely, but possibly serious issue in the my Apache profile. 

[gonvise]

Hello... is possible to use the CPG AI instructions directly without have to show before the George menu? In VR the circle above the HMS is... ugly... And with the voice confirmation of george is enough most of the time.

[Baldrick33]

Pretty sure it is how Bailey’s voice attack profile for the AH-64 works:

 

[gonvise]

Thanks but no, using this Voice Attack profile shows the circle menu in the same way. For immersion in VR, I would like pusk keys w a s d directly without having to show george menu before. This way, if I have to change weapon, I'd only should have to push 'a' key, and not 'lctr+v1' to show interface, then 'a', then 'lctr+v' again to hide. In VR the george menu is very invasive.

[Baldrick33]

9 minutes ago, gonvise said:

Thanks but no, using this Voice Attack profile shows the circle menu in the same way. For immersion in VR, I would like pusk keys w a s d directly without having to show george menu before. This way, if I have to change weapon, I'd only should have to push 'a' key, and not 'lctr+v1' to show interface, then 'a', then 'lctr+v' again to hide. In VR the george menu is very invasive.

Sorry I am so used to seeing it in VR I didn't spot them to the sides!

[sirrah]

18 hours ago, gonvise said:

Hello... is possible to use the CPG AI instructions directly without have to show before the George menu? In VR the circle above the HMS is... ugly... And with the voice confirmation of george is enough most of the time.

 

Just want to share that I too would like to have this option.

Especially the CPG menu overlay is not really needed because George AI verbally verifies the player's commands. I fully agree it would add to immersion being able to switch off the menu overlay entirely, while still being able to command George.

[gonvise]

I have modified the PrestonAI_page_common.lua file and now the George menu (from pilot seat) is hidden, even though is necessary push LCTR+V once at start... from here, only commands via W A S D and George voice verifications. For me, in VR is the less invasive way and works like a charm.

[sirrah]

2 hours ago, gonvise said:

I have modified the PrestonAI_page_common.lua file and now the George menu (from pilot seat) is hidden, even though is necessary push LCTR+V once at start... from here, only commands via W A S D and George voice verifications. For me, in VR is the less invasive way and works like a charm.

Please share how you did this

Also, does it have impact on IC?

[gonvise]

File to modify

...DCS World\Mods\aircraft\AH-64D\Cockpit\Scripts\AI\PrestonAI_page_common.lua

local weap_control_pos     = {0,    0.32}  ->  Change 0.32 by 200

local weap_circle_tex_pos = 
{
    min_x = 472
    max_x = 718
    min_y = 664
    max_y = 910
}  -> Change all values by 0

I don't know where the hell I am moving the menu, but it doesn't appear anymore

As for the IC, sorry but I don't know, I'm not flying apache online yet.

  

 

PrestonAI_page_common.lua

[Bailey]

On 4/1/2022 at 2:02 AM, gonvise said:

File to modify

...DCS World\Mods\aircraft\AH-64D\Cockpit\Scripts\AI\PrestonAI_page_common.lua

local weap_control_pos     = {0,    0.32}  ->  Change 0.32 by 200

local weap_circle_tex_pos = 
{
    min_x = 472
    max_x = 718
    min_y = 664
    max_y = 910
}  -> Change all values by 0

I don't know where the hell I am moving the menu, but it doesn't appear anymore

As for the IC, sorry but I don't know, I'm not flying apache online yet.

  

 

PrestonAI_page_common.lua 21.74 kB · 2 downloads

Nice solution. It is similar to the F14 solution in the past. It could be nice to have this as an Special Options toggle. I wouldn't opt for it, but I know many who would.

On 4/1/2022 at 1:36 AM, sirrah said:

Please share how you did this

Also, does it have impact on IC?

The changes are OK for IC.

[Rick50]

Sweet, will have to trythis out!

[Chesty McVelvet]

This worked perfectly for me,no more george menu clogging up the center my view in vr . We have all been using the menu so much that the lay out is semi memorised and george gives verbal cues to what commands he's obeyed. I also moved the GPG compass menu and the target list to the lower right of my veiw point, as i find they are easier to see out from the center bottom as you look down into the cockpit.Cheers Gonvise and Bailey

 

[SsgtHolland]

On 3/23/2022 at 5:33 PM, Qnnrad said:

Hi, please allow us to map keybinds for every separate George AI command so that we can use them without the AI interface.

 

+1 This would make the setup for Voice Attack much easier.

Things that would be helpful in this regard:

• Shortcuts for CP/G weapon selection i.e. WAS Hellfire, WAS Gun, WAS Rockets
• Commands for George pilot to fixed altitudes i.e. Altitude 50 feet, Altitude 100 feet, Altitude 500 feet
• Commands for George Pilot to change heading is set increments i.e. Left 20, Left 45
• Commands for George pilot to set cardinal directions i.e. Heading West, Heading North East
• Commands for George pilot to transverse forward/ sideways a set distance when hovering i.e. Left 20 meters, Forward 100 meters