done George AI CPG Target list color-based IFF and better description of targets

[FalcoGer]

I think george should be able to tell the difference between a HUMVEE and a BTR in the target list. But right now they're both "APC", especially when close enough (aka within 15km), or tell the difference between a rifleman and a manpad at reasonable ranges. Though I think the classification should still be in that list for those people that don't know what a BTR is. Or whatever confusing names the chineese come up with.

[frostycab]

33 minutes ago, FalcoGer said:

I think george should be able to tell the difference between a HUMVEE and a BTR in the target list. But right now they're both "APC", especially when close enough (aka within 15km), or tell the difference between a rifleman and a manpad at reasonable ranges. Though I think the classification should still be in that list for those people that don't know what a BTR is. Or whatever confusing names the chineese come up with.

I agree that an ideal CPG would probably be able to make some sort of differentiation. However, a more concerning issue is how to use George effectively if you have any friendly forces at all between you and the enemy. If it's a difficult task to get him to recognise specific vehicles it would be helpful if he could at least tell the difference between BlueFor and RedFor. The risk of friendly fire is very high with the system as it stands right now. Same for the Hind. However, I accept that there are many, many more pressing things to be done with the module over the next few months.

[FalcoGer]

Well you can verify what he sees on the VID page, but it kinda sucks. He should be able to do it on his own.

[frostycab]

Yep. I've played about with it in my head how it would work if you were supporting a line of tanks advancing towards an enemy stronghold. Right now you'd be telling him where to look, and then guessing from a list of 20 targets, and each time you try again the list repopulates in a different order or with different units depending on the orientation, so it doesn't seem like you can even filter them out in your head once you've tried them once.

[Raffson]

+1 on a more detailed target list.

Also, when there’s a lot of targets, the list can get pretty long, a “parent sub-menu” with categories would be handy, definitely speeding up the process of picking out specific targets.

[Qnnrad]

+1

[Baaz]

I'm absolutely against the thought of submenus.  The list is already created in the order of threat priority (at least from what I can see); with greatest threat listed first.  

 

I really don't want to see any more information than is absolutely necessary, and since Knucklehead can't tell the difference between friend or foe, a simple "Blue Tank", "Red Tank" is all I need.  But lets be honest, a good PIC is going to verify what his CPG is looking at before giving consent to fire anyway.  Do you/we want realism, or gamey tactics?

[Qnnrad]

I can see your point, Baaz, though my opinion is that currently feedback from George about targets is so limited that it throws me out of the immersion.

I believe that there is a balance to be achieved and we're NOT there yet.

[Raffson]

8 hours ago, Baaz said:

 Do you/we want realism, or gamey tactics?

In that case you might as well fly exclusively with a human CP/G… imo, if you’re flying with george, you’re already messing up the realism part anyway.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Raffson

[Mr_Blastman]

Say you have George scan an area that is rich in threats--say 10 - 15+.  This can take a while to cycle through using a hotas in order to pick what you want.  Sometimes your priority target might be the last one in the list.  When seconds count, this might mean the difference between you getting a shot off or not.

 

Perhaps the listing algorithm needs to be refined as to reduce duplicates and relegate them to a sub menu.  For example, George's first report might be as follows:

 

AAA
SAM

TANK              ------->  Designate input pressed ------->  New sub menu that lists all TANK/AAA/SAM/etc. you can select, or just shoot TANKs

IVF

MISC

 

This could streamline things.

 

Also, some clarity between AAA, SAM and Emitter would be useful.  A single emitter might supply fire control for 5 - 10 launchers.  If you destroy the emitter, problem solved, fly in and mop up with gun.  Presently George does not discern clearly the difference between Emitter and Threat.  I noticed in one instance yesterday he would say LR SAM and MR SAM.  One would think LR SAM would be the emitter, but it wasn't, the MR SAM targets were.

 

Lastly, his ability to perform IFF duty--discerning markings on vehicles as friend/foe would also be _very_ welcome.  He's the front seater, after all.

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Mr_Blastman

[BIGNEWY]

Hi

thanks for the feedback, I have moved to wish list for now as it is not a bug. 

Currently George will list the highest threat first ( usually SAM ) then he will list by range. 

I will pass on your feedback to the team

thanks

[Razor18]

And could we somehow not loose the initial target list after every single shot, if I want just continue blasting without having the CPG rescan the same area again and again? Maybe the list could stay on until canceling target(s)with left short? Or the list could get shorter and shorter by eliminating each targets, and only "updating" list when commanding rescan?

Edited March 28, 2022 by Razor18

[ams999]

51 minutes ago, Razor18 said:

And could we somehow not loose the initial target list after every single shot, if I want just continue blasting without having the CPG rescan the same area again and again? Maybe the list could stay on until canceling target(s)with left short? Or the list could get shorter and shorter by eliminating each targets, and only "updating" list when commanding rescan?

 

"Down long" isn't what you're after? That brings back the list for me, without a rescan.

[Razor18]

You might be right, but manual says on p334 "... commands George to repeat search along current TADS LOS." Will look up, if any delay in re-listing, thanks!

[pellelil]

The list should be intelligent to only group when there are multiple of the same type:

SAM
TANK x3
INF x8

In this case we could select the (single) SAM without having to "open" a "group" with only a single element. Likewise I miss the feature to simply ask George so attack all targets of a specific type. E.g. In the case above its a lot of key-presses if you want George to attack all of the INF with the Gun.

E.g. right-short to attack (if there is only a single of a specific type), or right-short to "open a group" (if there are multiple of the same type). and then use right-long to attack all targets of the specific type (e.g. INF).

Edited March 29, 2022 by pellelil

[FalcoGer]

I would like the grouping as well, but for single targets it should also display a type, not just SR SAM but maybe "SR SAM - SA-8 Gecko (Osa)" and instead of "TANK" it should be "TANK - T80". Mostly because HUMVEE = APC and BTR-90 = APC. You get them both in the same list and your CAS mission will turn out to be interesting.

[Whirley]

+1 with taking range into account. The more info the closer you are.

something like this could be helpful

1. Vehicle
2. APC
3. BTR
4. Friendly BTR

Currently as pilot it is pretty difficult to hover and scan the TADS video feed to make out targets. Especially with George exiting Zoom when displaying the target list.

[Gretsch_Man]

On 3/29/2022 at 1:57 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Currently George will list the highest threat first ( usually SAM ) then he will list by range. 

It is possible to make George list targets by range? How can the player do that?

I think it would be helpful if the player could ask George to list targets either by threat, range or type. And he should also ignore friendlies.

[BIGNEWY]

He does list by range, but if there are high threat targets he will list them first. It just takes some getting used to.

For example in the Tbilisi Guard instant action mission you have a column of tanks and IFV at the front, and a SAM group behind. 

The SAMs in this case will show first, then the remaining targets in the list a by range.  

In the example mission I always go for the tanks at the front first so have to check down the list, you will see George move his cross as you move the targets in the list. 

[Tank33]

We should be able to choose whether the list is sorted by Threat (High-Low) or Proximity (Closest listed first).

[comcat]

I would also like it if he would let me know if there is no list, just a single lased and stored, what it is.

[Mohamengina]

Are there plans to add more information to the targets that George finds? For example instead of saying 'long range sam' it would say long range sam (SA6 search radar - 4km).

Sometimes it can be a bit vague and you need to cycle your targets and verify them in the TADS view when this is something that would be done conversationally between the pilot and CPG.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Mohamengina

[Dagobert666]

yes I totally agree!

 

in the list should be instead

AAA 1

tank 1

tank 2

tank 3

tank 4

 

 

it would be better

AAA 1 (SA-8) -12km

Tank 1 (T72) -6km

Tank 2 (T80) -5km

Tank 3 (T72) -6km

Tank 4 (T90) -2km

 

it is perfectly sufficient if the distances are estimated at +- 1km from George. And only reflect the moment of target acquisition. But at least that's what a normal human CPG can do.

 

 

I made a military camp in the editor and then I wanted to destroy Scuds in it. Between all the other units like tanks, trucks, normal artillery and so on, it was extremely confusing for me to order George to fire on the primary target.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Dagobert666

[Roosterfeet]

How about add distance info:

Tank 1 (T72) 1.5k

Tank 2 (T80) 1.6k

Tank 3 (T72) 1.9k

Tank 4 (T90) 2.2k

 

Also, it would be extremely helpful if we could choose between having the list sorted by George's threat priority and sorted by distance from the point on the ground where PHS was looking when the command was given. I've had several occasions where I'm looking right at the APC that's shooting at us but George wants to target all the AAA threats 4km away.

[davidrbarnette]

To your point, I'd like to at least know what the target is... i.e. rather than a "tank", maybe make it "T-72". I shot up a group of friendlies yesterday because George targets anything and doesn't distinguish between good and bad.