based on field of view and ground detail Is it just me or does it seem like the ground in DCS moves past you way more slowly than in vids like these?

[S. Low]

 

[randomTOTEN]

Why do we have to have this same thread every handful of months?

That doesn't even look fast.

[Niehorst]

FOV

[RealDCSpilot]

 

[Tom Kazansky]

3 hours ago, S. Low said:

 

as many said before: FOV

Take your YT example and try to focus on the center of the Apache's line of sight (e.g. by masking the rest, left and right with your hands) and you will see: the relative high speed impression is... gone.

[Eldur]

And then there's GS where even <200 canots seem like he's going supersonic without actually getting off the spot in a rate fight because he's maxed his FOV to over 9000

[S. Low]

5 hours ago, randomTOTEN said:

Why do we have to have this same thread every handful of months?

That doesn't even look fast.

I’ve never seen this thread before and I was curious. But thanks

2 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

 

Huh. Well that’s cool. It still seems to me though that the peripheral movement in DCS is slower.  

Edited March 25, 2022 by S. Low

[Ramstein]

sort of like the ride in high performance vehicles that are made for high performance... those that are purposely built for the performance, especially on the street, will ride nice and  more smooth that a car that has the qualities of a medium street car that has been built to go faster by a third party and achieved the additional performance with mods. The car that was built to higher performance will ride much nice than the car that was modded. The factory performance car will also feel much smoother and not feel the higher speeds as much as the car that was modded and which will feel like it is being pushed much more. Those that have had both will understand. If it feels like thew wings are coming off in high performance moves, it means the aircraft is over the limits... The plane which was made to perform will feel good in the maneuvers. Which means the Helo was built to do that... so it feels like it handles it well.

 

But, yes, I feel that too, it feels like I am doing 20 knts when in fact I am going over 100 knts in the Apache. I fly in VR. So if the FPS acts up, it gets me dizzy. Another issue that usually doesn't happen in other aircraft with me.

[Dragon1-1]

VR fixes that really neatly. Your FOV is still limited, but now it's not squished like on pancake, but clamped, horse blinker style. Speed perception is exactly the same as IRL, and high speed NOE flight is a harrowing experience.

[S. Low]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

VR fixes that really neatly. Your FOV is still limited, but now it's not squished like on pancake, but clamped, horse blinker style. Speed perception is exactly the same as IRL, and high speed NOE flight is a harrowing experience.

Though I believe I understand what you’re saying, i don’t think it’s an accurate answer.

im watching the real life Apache vid on a 2D monitor as well. I’m not in vr or actually in that cockpit. So I’m viewing the real life vid in the same way I’m viewing the dcs gameplay. Yet dcs peripheral movement seems slower to me. Maybe I’ll figure out how to cut a vid and do a side by side and if it still looks different to me I’ll post it to see what others think 

[Lurker]

6 minutes ago, S. Low said:

Though I believe I understand what you’re saying, i don’t think it’s an accurate answer.

im watching the real life Apache vid on a 2D monitor as well. I’m not in vr or actually in that cockpit. So I’m viewing the real life vid in the same way I’m viewing the dcs gameplay. Yet dcs peripheral movement seems slower to me. Maybe I’ll figure out how to cut a vid and do a side by side and if it still looks different to me I’ll post it to see what others think 

The only thing that matters is the FOV of the system that took the video in the first place. FOV = Field of View

You can get the same effect in DCS by zooming out. The way that zoom works in DCS is that it effectively widens or narrows your field of view. 

[S. Low]

7 minutes ago, Lurker said:

The only thing that matters is the FOV of the system that took the video in the first place. FOV = Field of View

You can get the same effect in DCS by zooming out. The way that zoom works in DCS is that it effectively widens or narrows your field of view. 

I’ll try it again tonight with the higher fov but I’m pretty sure I’ve already done this and it still seems slower.

[rcjonessnp175]

Fov hype train choo choo 

[KungFu]

And no one saying anything about the little hook moving less than it does in DCS

[S. Low]

Lol I must have missed some happenings and going’s on at some point because I don’t get all the sarcasm and goofballery in response to this question 

[Ignition]

FOV + way more detail in real life

[Mistermann]

Let me start this question with a statement - I am very much enjoying the early access experience with the Apache.  There's been a ton of learning and setup for me (key bindings for Pilot, CPG controls using PS4 controller, and the creation of a voice attack profile to control all the MPD buttons and Keyboard Unit).  Its been a lot of fun!

Flying and hovering have been rewarding.  I fly almost exclusively in VR.

I have spend most of the past 3 years or so in the Hornet.  I picked up the Huey about a month ago, and while I've flown the Blackshark and Gazelle, those experiences are distant memories for me.

Now, I realize this just might be a result of flying around in fast moving jets for so long, but it feels to me as though the Apache is slow.  I mean, I can fly it fast, but it just doesn't feel like the ground is rushing by at the speed that's indicated.  For some reason I was expecting more of a visceral experience flying fast at treetop level.  Something like this video.

https://www.military.com/video/aircraft/helicopters/thrilling-apache-low-level-flight/4715392828001

Now, I've never been in a real Apache, so this is all virtual pilot conjecture.  I'm just wondering if others might share this notion.  My time in the Apache has been in the Caucasus as that seems to have the best performance for my VR setup.  

Again, this is not a complaint.  I am just wondering if the 2D experience might render speed in a different way.  Or if I need to start considering future upgrades.  Or possibly we're still not at a technology level that can render the simulation like real life just yet.

Looking forward to hearing what you all think.

[S. Low]

I just asked this as well. The common response and possibly the answer is a difference in FOV. I've always thought the Caucus map was *off* with speeds in all of my aircraft though so I don't accept the FOV answer fully; however, I don't really have the energy to do a bunch of vids showing me flying at high speeds on various maps vs real life vids in various terrain. Arma 3 never gave me the impression that I was going slower than I should be. 

 

[Mistermann]

Interesting....I'll check out the other thread.

[Tiger-II]

It can happen if the scale is off. AFAIK the world is 1:1, but it doesn't mean that it translates in the way the world is drawn.

How to explain this...

Starting with the aircraft, assuming it is scaled correctly and built correctly (3D model) then if the pitch ladder displays correctly in the HUD, then if you take a real-world location and put the aircraft over point A and look at point B, if in real-life it hits the 20 degree line on the HUD, then in the sim it should also hit the 20 degree line.

If the vertical scaling is correct and not compressed, that should then mean that the point at B is the correct visual distance away, and so flying over anything between that point and where the aircraft currently is should fly-by at the correct rate, and give the feeling of speed.

If the world or vertical scaling is off, then this affects how many pixels the scenery moves for a given distance, and directly affects the feeling of speed.

In VR this should be more noticeable due to depth rendering, but you can see it if you look out the left/right side. If you know the FoV and the size of a specific object and its distance from the aircraft, you can time the time it takes for the object to pass the FoV at a certain speed and see if it matches the computed time (the best way is to use a ship TACAN and fly a straight line such that the ship is e.g. 0.5 NM away at the closest point. This way you can accurately calculate how long the ship should be visible for when looking exactly to the side and flying by.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Tiger-II

[S. Low]

2 hours ago, Tiger-II said:

It can happen if the scale is off. AFAIK the world is 1:1, but it doesn't mean that it translates in the way the world is drawn.

How to explain this...

Starting with the aircraft, assuming it is scaled correctly and built correctly (3D model) then if the pitch ladder displays correctly in the HUD, then if you take a real-world location and put the aircraft over point A and look at point B, if in real-life it hits the 20 degree line on the HUD, then in the sim it should also hit the 20 degree line.

If the vertical scaling is correct and not compressed, that should then mean that the point at B is the correct visual distance away, and so flying over anything between that point and where the aircraft currently is should fly-by at the correct rate, and give the feeling of speed.

If the world or vertical scaling is off, then this affects how many pixels the scenery moves for a given distance, and directly affects the feeling of speed.

In VR this should be more noticeable due to depth rendering, but you can see it if you look out the left/right side. If you know the FoV and the size of a specific object and its distance from the aircraft, you can time the time it takes for the object to pass the FoV at a certain speed and see if it matches the computed time (the best way is to use a ship TACAN and fly a straight line such that the ship is e.g. 0.5 NM away at the closest point. This way you can accurately calculate how long the ship should be visible for when looking exactly to the side and flying by.

 

I had suspicions that because Caucuses is the OG map that it had some scaling issues or something like that which made it *feel* off. Thanks for the explanation. I suppose it's possible. I don't really feel this speed imbalance in the newer maps.

[Nevyn]

Yeah does feel a bit slow and I use track IR.

[Mistermann]

Hummmm.  That really makes me think about it a different way @Tiger-II.  Thanks.

I will definitely check out some of the other maps to see if there's a noticeable difference to my eyes.

Are there VR users out there who feel they're experiencing the sensation of speed described in the OP?

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Mistermann

[poochies]

20 hours ago, KungFu said:

And no one saying anything about the little hook moving less than it does in DCS

Lol exactly ! 

[piipu]

I think it's partly due to the low terrain detail in DCS. In the video there's a lot of small bush etc. that we're used to seeing in real life, so the sense of scale is a lot better than in DCS, where we have just low-detail trees, and fairly low-poly terrain with a mostly featureless texture on it. I doubt DCS is actually scaled incorrectly, it just feels like that because of the lack of scale cues.