▓▒░ Open source Flamming Cliffs 3 ░▒▓

[Cmptohocah]

Every time the community tries to push for missing features (modes, clickable cockpit, performance...) of FC3 planes we are met with an ultimate response "we consider it feature complete" and that's pretty much it.

Would it make sense for ED to release these planes as open-source, so that the community can continue the development of these platforms and then all ED would need to do is verify the changes and incorporate them into the updates?

This would improve FC3 planes and make us "dinosaurs" happy without any additional effort from Eagle Dynamics.

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Cmptohocah
made the title fancy

[SkateZilla]

5 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

Every time the community tries to push for missing features (modes, clickable cockpit, performance...) of FC3 planes we are met with an ultimate response "we consider it feature complete" and that's pretty much it.

Would it make sense for ED to release these planes as open-source, so that the community can continue the development of these platforms and then all ED would need to do is verify the changes and incorporate them into the updates?

This would improve FC3 planes and make us "dinosaurs" happy without any additional effort from Eagle Dynamics.

 

 

Feature complete doesnt mean abandonware,

FC3 is still being sold and supported, modding and recompiling DLLs would trigger the DRM to block the module.

[upyr1]

6 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

Every time the community tries to push for missing features (modes, clickable cockpit, performance...) of FC3 planes we are met with an ultimate response "we consider it feature complete" and that's pretty much it.

Would it make sense for ED to release these planes as open-source, so that the community can continue the development of these platforms and then all ED would need to do is verify the changes and incorporate them into the updates?

This would improve FC3 planes and make us "dinosaurs" happy without any additional effort from Eagle Dynamics.

 

 

How about replacing them with ff modules?

[Cmptohocah]

7 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Feature complete doesnt mean abandonware,

FC3 is still being sold and supported, modding and recompiling DLLs would trigger the DRM to block the module.

Yes, but many features are missing and it's a shame to have these amazing aircraft "half baked".

6 hours ago, upyr1 said:

How about replacing them with ff modules?

For X number of reasons (many of them discussed here on forums) this is not going to happen, or not in any foreseeable future at least.

[SkateZilla]

9 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

Yes, but many features are missing and it's a shame to have these amazing aircraft "half baked".

For X number of reasons (many of them discussed here on forums) this is not going to happen, or not in any foreseeable future at least.

What features are missing?

As for FF Versions, F-15C is Doing, as is A-10A and Likely Su-25A and MIG-29A
Su-27/Su-33 doubtful.

[MAXsenna]

44 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

What features are missing?

As for FF Versions, F-15C is Doing, as is A-10A and Likely Su-25A and MIG-29A
Su-27/Su-33 doubtful.

Doing as = coming? You serious???!!!  

[Cmptohocah]

49 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

What features are missing?

As for FF Versions, F-15C is Doing, as is A-10A and Likely Su-25A and MIG-29A
Su-27/Su-33 doubtful.

Clickable cockpit is one thing that all of them are missing, and I am not talking about the entire cockpit, but rather about already existing features/systems.

MiG-29: missing navigation, wrong "schlem" mode look and functionality, no GCI data-link, resetting of the radar antena elevation setting, no manual IFF...

Su-27: wrong trans-sonic acceleration, missing "time to impact" timer in the HUD...

These are just to name a few.  Eagle is also missing key features.

There is a list of quite a few threads dealing with all the missing features and other issues in various sub-forums.

[Tippis]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

Doing as = coming? You serious???!!!  

There is very little to suggest this.

[MAXsenna]

Just now, Tippis said:

There is very little to suggest this.

That's why I asked.

[SkateZilla]

4 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

Clickable cockpit is one thing that all of them are missing, and I am not talking about the entire cockpit, but rather about already existing features/systems.

MiG-29: missing navigation, wrong "schlem" mode look and functionality, no GCI data-link, resetting of the radar antena elevation setting, no manual IFF...

Su-27: wrong trans-sonic acceleration, missing "time to impact" timer in the HUD...

These are just to name a few.  Eagle is also missing key features.

There is a list of quite a few threads dealing with all the missing features and other issues in various sub-forums.

FC3 was Sim-Lite, Aircraft with SSM (Standard Systems Modelling), 
-Clickable Cockpits was never part of the project, so it's not missing.
-Advanced avionics functions were also not part of the project scope.

Standard Systems Modeling (SSM). A DCS module using SSM is characterized as including just the most essential cockpit systems and using keyboard and joystick commands only to interact with the cockpit. Examples of SSM in DCS include all of the Flaming Cliffs 3 aircraft.

FC3 Brought the LockOn Style Aircraft into DCS World, and were given Graphical and Flight Model Upgrades.
No where was it ever stated they would be Clickable and having PSM.

 

5 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Doing as = coming? You serious???!!!  

I meant Do-able, spell check got me there.

Edited March 26, 2022 by SkateZilla

[MAXsenna]

Just now, SkateZilla said:

I meant Do-able, spell check got me there.

Thought so, just headed straight for the wishing well!

[SkateZilla]

3 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Thought so, just headed straight for the wishing well!

an DCS: A-10A is on my most wanted list, with DCS: F-15C (But Closer to the Lot the USAF is Phasing out now for the EX)

Edited March 26, 2022 by SkateZilla

[Coxy_99]

6 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

What features are missing?

As for FF Versions, F-15C is Doing, as is A-10A and Likely Su-25A and MIG-29A
Su-27/Su-33 doubtful.

G limiter in the SU-33.
SU-27 DL in MP thats in SP.

Thats just two i can think of right now off my head.

[MAXsenna]

59 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

an DCS: A-10A is on my most wanted list, with DCS: F-15C (But Closer to the Lot the USAF is Phasing out now for the EX)

 

Yeah, bring on the 80s Cold War modules!  

[Callsign112]

6 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

Clickable cockpit is one thing that all of them are missing, and I am not talking about the entire cockpit, but rather about already existing features/systems.

MiG-29: missing navigation, wrong "schlem" mode look and functionality, no GCI data-link, resetting of the radar antena elevation setting, no manual IFF...

Su-27: wrong trans-sonic acceleration, missing "time to impact" timer in the HUD...

These are just to name a few.  Eagle is also missing key features.

There is a list of quite a few threads dealing with all the missing features and other issues in various sub-forums.

FC3 planes are supposed to be FF in terms of their flight model, but my understanding is that they are made to be simplified on purpose. They are a lot less expensive, and suppose to be easier to learn.

I am looking forward to start exploring with the A10A and F15 as a start, but someone else commented in another thread that they would like to see more cockpit animations to coincide with keyboard interactions. I don't think this would be too big of an ask, and I can see how it would really help augment immersion for the FC3 modules. 

[Beirut]

5 minutes ago, Callsign112 said:

FC3 planes are supposed to be FF in terms of their flight model, but my understanding is that they are made to be simplified on purpose. They are a lot less expensive, and suppose to be easier to learn.

I am looking forward to start exploring with the A10A and F15 as a start, but someone else commented in another thread that they would like to see more cockpit animations to coincide with keyboard interactions. I don't think this would be too big of an ask, and I can see how it would really help augment immersion for the FC3 modules. 

 

You don't have any FC3 planes yet? I'm surprised.

 

I think the A-10a was my first DCS payware plane. Had to have the BRRRRRTTTT! I think the FC3 planes are great. They're a lot of fun and do a lot of things and I think you can get them on sale for less than $10. It's a super sweet deal.

 

It's hard to beat the SU-25A in the FC3 planes. I call it the Pickup Truck of Death. Easy to operate, fast, and carries a huge amount of repressed anger. Some of it laser guided.

[Mars Exulte]

On 3/25/2022 at 12:30 PM, Cmptohocah said:

Would it make sense for ED to release these planes as open-source

  No, it wouldn't.

 

Ffs, it never ceases to amaze me how loose people are with somebody else's property. ''Oh these mods makers need to do THIS'' or ''Oh ED needs to crack open their business model THAT''.

[Cmptohocah]

13 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

  No, it wouldn't.

 

Ffs, it never ceases to amaze me how loose people are with somebody else's property. ''Oh these mods makers need to do THIS'' or ''Oh ED needs to crack open their business model THAT''.

So you are happy the way things are as far as FC3 planes go?

 

[Tippis]

1 hour ago, Cmptohocah said:

So you are happy the way things are as far as FC3 planes go?

Non sequitur.

[Mars Exulte]

7 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

So you are happy the way things are as far as FC3 planes go?

 

Requesting they expand their product is perfectly fine. Telling somebody else to make THEIR COMMERCIAL PRODUCT OPEN SOURCE because their livelihood is inconvenient to you is just.... *mind explodes*

Edited March 27, 2022 by Mars Exulte

[FlankerKiller]

On 3/26/2022 at 12:15 PM, Cmptohocah said:

Clickable cockpit is one thing that all of them are missing, and I am not talking about the entire cockpit, but rather about already existing features/systems.

MiG-29: missing navigation, wrong "schlem" mode look and functionality, no GCI data-link, resetting of the radar antena elevation setting, no manual IFF...

Su-27: wrong trans-sonic acceleration, missing "time to impact" timer in the HUD...

These are just to name a few.  Eagle is also missing key features.

There is a list of quite a few threads dealing with all the missing features and other issues in various sub-forums.

The Clickable cockpit for the included systems alone would be a huge improvement. Further development of systems for more realism within the confines of Russian law would be another. For the life of me I don't understand why the A-10A and F-15C don't get the Full fidelity treatment. You could sell the A-10 as a mega pack covering almost the whole life of the airframe. And even if they just completed the Mid 90's F-15C in game it would sell like hotcakes. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by FlankerKiller

[cfrag]

7 hours ago, FlankerKiller said:

it would sell like hotcakes.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. 

In cases like this, I prefer to think that those who really have to put up the money and perform the work, those who bet their livelihood on the success of such a venture - that they have run the numbers and did their research. In a product as mature (to say it kindly  - it's old enough to drink in most countries) as FC3, there usually aren't any low-hanging fruit left, they have all been picked. I'm quite sure that ED know very well the effort it takes to make FC3 planes FF. And they also have a good idea how well these particular 'vintage hotcakes' will sell. The fact that they did not go there is - to me - a good indication that the numbers that they are getting aren't convincing enough.

Oh, and I'd love to be proven wrong  

 

[okopanja]

14 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

Requesting they expand their product is perfectly fine. Telling somebody else to make THEIR COMMERCIAL PRODUCT OPEN SOURCE because their livelihood is inconvenient to you is just.... *mind explodes*

Before exploding, perhaps you should rethink this a bit. Open source does not mean that the product would become free. In the case of FC3, this would not require full disclosure of other closed source components provided that vendor friendly license is used.

Open-sourced project can still be sold as commercial product, where they charge for binaries and provision of certified modules that pass IC, its just that by doing this you enable the extension of the product, that mother company is not being interested in at the moment.

Although I do have some doubts about open source in general, I can not rule this out as a possibility to move away from status quo.

Other options include:

- closed source model with external vendor (F-15E),

- ED itself showing love, care and passion for their own product.

[bies]

I would like to see full fidelity F-15C, A-10A, Su-25A, MiG-29A or Su-27S, that's all i want from FC3, full fidelity modules from roughly Desert Storm era.

Making it open source would effectively exclude FC3 from DCS World. It would effect in a bunch of totally unrealistic fantasy amateur made mods incompatible with DCS, modelled in extremally optimistic way, without any real life limitations, often without any data.

On the other hand i've heard some opinions FC3 is going to be excluded from DCS World at some point, i don't know is it true or not, but in such case i will lose any intrest in such product.

[Beirut]

3 hours ago, bies said:

On the other hand i've heard some opinions FC3 is going to be excluded from DCS World at some point, i don't know is it true or not, but in such case i will lose any intrest in such product.

 

What? That's a painful rumour.