investigating The longer I fly Apache, the greater the drop in fps.

[atledreier]

My 3080Ti in VR runs with VRAM pretty much full at all times, but I have the performance drop after 20-40 minutes with the Apache. No issues with other modules.

I have a 3090 on the way, will report back how that fares with twice the memory.

[Senchay]

9 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

posts merged 

We are looking for this issue when we have our longer sessions, but I have not reproduced so far. 

Thank you.

I know I didn't bring much info but that was because it was so bad that i had to close the sim.

Ill try to give more info next time. Maybe your testers can try the COIN mission in Persian Gulf map too. That was the worst case so far. 

Reaching the last waypoints let the sim explode basically. I was switching cameras a lot from P to CP to F2 view on the trip, making some screenshots. 

One other quick way to test would be the 4rth Tutorial mission, the one with the gun.

Right when loading in i get topmost 28.fps. the further the tutorial goes and we are nearing the targets, switching the sights etc, the fps go down to 15.

Again, when I jump into the F18 anywhere in the world it will be most likely 60 fps or near there. If it's not Marianas.

But I'll report more, like mentioned.

[Senchay]

Did a few more tests and I could fix it i think.

When i loaded into said mission/tutorial i saw that my GPU is fully maxed. So i lowered texture resolution from high to medium and cockpit from the displays from 512 (every pic) to 512 only. This gave me an immense boost and no degradation. Did the same mission that led to the 5 fps after playing around for 30+ mins last time and now i get constant 60 fps basically. In both seats. It can go to some 50 at times but overall its really great now.

Lost some quality on the textures thought but its still ok i guess. 

https://imgur.com/9aFxXv5

https://imgur.com/JS2UaGP

Still, the difference to lets say F18 is still there. Because i reached the same fps in that one with the old settings. But i understand that there are a few displays more to render in the Apache. Would be amazing if we have a small bit of optimization maybe over time? 

[Miro]

Lowering the details without the implemented new visible graphics solutions does not make sense in the long run, temporarily yes, until they fix it. Why is it worth reporting such drops and reporting observations? So that in two years we will not wake up again with ZTX 6090 graphics on medium details with 40 fps, crying for a new graphics engine. 

 

I've already flew two flights at my full set up in 60 fps. I just don't turn on any extra stuff like Picture in picture, I'm learning to be a pilot. and here another observation, even ordinary non-digital NVGs, can start the frame drop chain.

[River]

Apache stutters for me in 2D when I turn on PNVS or mirror TADS on a MFD. 

When I turn off the MFDs by turning down brightness I get smooth 60 fps again. 

Lowering fidelity and resolution does nothing. TADS and PNVS give me stutter. Great. 

1080ti, 8700k, 32gb ram

Edited April 1, 2022 by River

[TOViper]

On 4/1/2022 at 9:33 AM, River said:

Apache stutters for me in 2D when I turn on PNVS or mirror TADS on a MFD. 

When I turn off the MFDs by turning down brightness I get smooth 60 fps again. 

Lowering fidelity and resolution does nothing. TADS and PNVS give me stutter. Great. 

1080ti, 8700k, 32gb ram

 

What about turning OFF both "Shadows" (not the "Terrain Shadows") ?
Yesterday I found out that the Apache has about 2.3 Million triangles when "Shadows" are set to anything but OFF (in norhtern Caucasus with no 3D objects other than the Apache itself, sitting in the rear seat). If I turn OFF "Shadows", I the scene only shows about 1.4 Million triangles.

Edit: the LOD is in that way on my machine that if I use F2 to view the model from outside, I have to use the mouswheel 37 "clicks" to zoom out. Only then the number of triangles reduces to 1.7 million. This is far away ... according to a quick measurement on F-10 map this was about ~6km.
Fun fact: if the rotor is spinning hither than about 85% rpm, the 3D objects are replaced by a sort of animation, and this saves 400.000 triangles!

Edited April 2, 2022 by TOViper

[Miro]

17 hours ago, TOViper said:

What about turning OFF both "Shadows" (not the "Terrain Shadows") ?
Yesterday I found out that the Apache has about 2.3 Million triangles when "Shadows" are set to anything but OFF (in norhtern Caucasus with no 3D objects other than the Apache itself, sitting in the rear seat). If I turn OFF "Shadows", I the scene only shows about 1.4 Million triangles.

Edit: the LOD is in that way on my machine that if I use F2 to view the model from outside, I have to use the mouswheel 37 "clicks" to zoom out. Only then the number of triangles reduces to 1.7 million. This is far away ... according to a quick measurement on F-10 map this was about ~6km.
Fun fact: if the rotor is spinning hither than about 85% rpm, the 3D objects are replaced by a sort of animation, and this saves 400.000 triangles!

 

It has nothing to do with the shadows, the helicopter works pretty well until we start working with additional Video sources like TADS, Digital NVGS, what gives us huge FPS drop, which persist after Video sources has been turned off. For me surprisingly even NV Googles causig FPS drop, but not immediately, but with time, even when turned off, the FPS drops - Like a chain of some invalid calculations that cause a leak of Vram.

[River]

No shadows at all doesn't help. TADS and FLIR on MPD or PNVS on and my FPS go from 60 to low 40s.

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by River

[oscar19681]

On 3/31/2022 at 4:05 AM, Senchay said:

Hello.

Im enjoying the Apache a lot! What an amzing beast.

Sadly i run into some problems with the performance. Im not sure if its some certain missions or degradation over time, but after a while the flight goes down to 5 fps (not exaggerated) and just becomes unflyable.

Overall the performance seems a hefty difference to lets say the F18. I dont have th worst PC plus im someone who takes a lot of care what he does with his pc. Its all up to date, DCS installed not even a week, no mods or anyting. Only the F14, F18 and the Apache, plus some maps.

The last time it happened was in a mission that comes with the addon, COIN in the mountains or something in English. Persian gulf. After nearing the destination the fps went down to 5, taking the whole pc with down with it. 

In the F18 i get steady 60 fps in most scenarios, in the Apache often only 20. 

My system is
Intel 9900k (no oc)
RTX 2080 (no oc)
32GB Ram 3200
WQHD resolution

Win 10 22H2

Am i alone with this?

I have the same problem with the CION mission. But only with VR. I tried to recreate the problem in 2D but then it runs fine in the coin mission and any given mission. So for me the problem only occurs in VR.

[TOViper]

On 4/4/2022 at 7:35 AM, River said:

No shadows at all doesn't help. TADS and FLIR on MPD or PNVS on and my FPS go from 60 to low 40s.

Considering your writing, I have to say that I have the same problems with the F-16 and its displays.
Could it be that the "new" display programming (that was introduced with update 2.7.11.21408.1) creates that kind of problems (it was labelled as "Added a new FLIR rendering system for AH-64D, F-16C, F/A-18C, and A-10C/A-10C II"?

[River]

I guess so, it needs a lot optimization. 

[cfrag]

On 3/31/2022 at 12:00 PM, Migo said:

I also thought of a memory leak

So do I, and I suspect it's more generalized, just more obvious when flying the Apache or Hind (i.e. recent modules that use lots of vram compared to older modules). I often (unfortunately not reliably, so there may be other factors) hit an obvious fps issue after changing airframes in the same mission. When I have the Hind or Apache in the mix, I'm much more likely to encounter a strong fps issue (<=5 fps in VR) than when using FC3 planes. The more recent (wrt release date, not modelled plane), the more likely the fps drop after entering the new cockpit. To me, it looks like I'm running out of VRAM, and the culprit may be memory not released (i.e. leaked memory). 

Edited April 12, 2022 by cfrag

[KoN]

All of Vram will be used in DCS . 

Turn off shadows in all apps and have medium Textures . 

retry again . 

Syria map uses all Vram . 

Cant wait for Vulkan to come . Lets hope the Spotting 1-1 scaling is Fixed so we can fly WWII . 

Edited April 28, 2022 by KoN

[TOViper]

Nevada
VR Oculus Rift CV1
NVIDIA 1070 GTX (8 GB)
OB 2.7.11.22211
F-14A
SP
Terrain Textures to HIGH: fps = 8
Terrain Textures to LOW: fps = 45 stable

Worth noting is, that a certain time ago I usually used to use terrain textures set to high, and never had problems with that.
So the problem came up during the last updates. Maybe this helps when investigating.

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by TOViper
missing info