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Hornet MIL Thrust Performance Questions


wilbur81

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Hey, Team.

I'm not sure if this is a bug report or not, so I've posted it here and you can feel free to move it to the appropriate place based upon how you see fit. Hope it's helpful, though, either way.Ā šŸ‘

First, I'd like to highlight just how right your team seems to have gotten the thrust modeling on our Hornet in DCS:

According to an easy-to-find public source from a governmental report using the Navy's data:

The F/A-18C, equipped with the F404-402 EPE's, in a 2 AIM9, 2 AIM120, 60% internal fuel configuration, hits the following acceleration benchmarks in full afterburning thrust at three different altitudes:Ā 

At 5,000 feet, the F/A-18C accelerates from 0.8 Mach to 1.08 Mach in 21 seconds. In DCS: 27 seconds

At 20,000 feet at maximum thrust, the F/A-18C accelerates from 0.8 Mach to 1.2 Mach in 34.6 seconds. In DCS: 36 seconds

At 35,000 feet at maximum thrust, the F/A-18C accelerates from 0.8 Mach to 1.2 Mach in 55.80 seconds. In DCS: 55 secondsĀ and accelerates from 0.8 Mach to 1.6 Mach in 2 minutes 12 seconds. In DCS: 2 minutes 01 second.

In short... Well done!Ā Ā :thumbup:

However, I did some tests in full MIL power and compared them to the Viper in full MIL as well as the Viper was seeming sluggish to me clean, in full MIL. My findings surprised me a great deal and I thought I'd post them here in case it could either get our Hornet and/or our Viper even closer to reality:

For my tests, both the Hornet and Viper started at 400 kts and 30K ft at mission start andĀ 60% internal fuel with no stores or pylons on either jet.

For the full afterburner tests, it was no surprise that theĀ Viper beat the Hornet from 400kts to M 0.9:

Viper
18 seconds to achieve 0.9 Mach

Hornet
21 seconds to achieve 0.9 Mach

However, here are the results for the full MIL power tests under the same conditions:

Viper
49 seconds to achieve 0.9 Mach

Hornet
42 seconds to achieve 0.9 Mach

A seven(ish) second advantage in military power over the perfectly slick Viper seems wrong to me (maybe either the new Viper engine modeling at full MIL or the Hornet's MIL power is the bug?). Is there any evidence that a slick Viper would be slower to accelerate than a slick Hornet in MIL power in these conditions? I have doubts that this is accurate, but I'm also (obviously) not privy to every capability of these two different motors.

Again, hope this info. and (albeit very limited) testing is helpful to you guys in some way.

Keep up the great work on these 4th Gen masterpieces!Ā šŸ‘

Ā 

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5K FT - GAO Test - 27 seconds.trk 20K FT - GAO Test - 36 seconds.trk 35K FT - GAO Test - 55 seconds.trk 35K FT to M1.6 - GAO Test - 2m 1s.trk 30KMilTestViperHornet.miz


Edited by wilbur81

i7 8700K @ Stock - Win10 64 - 32 RAM - RTX 3080 12gb OC - 55 inch 4k Display

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4 hours ago, Hulkbust44 said:

How so? I know even mover said he thinks a EPE Hornet should out- power a Viper.

The 16 gets it's power from blower so the mil acceleration sounds right.
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Ā 

I may very well be wrong... I just found it very surprising that my absolutely clean, 60% fuel Viper was being out accelerated in MIL power by that much (Clean Hornet was 7 seconds faster from 400kts to 0.9 Mach at 30K feet). I wouldn't think that a Hornet could ever out-accelerate a Viper when they were both clean.Ā Maybe the Hornet is as it should be but the Viper's MIL power isn't high enough currently? Again, from my tests above, ED has nearly perfectly NAILED IT for the Hornet in full afterburner... so, maybe they have too in MIL? Again, I wouldn't think that a Hornet (clean or not) could ever out-accelerate an absolutely slick Viper. That's where my question is coming from.


Edited by wilbur81
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The Viper in DCS has never been terribly impressive out of burner - anyone who has tried lugging a heavy-ish air to ground loadout to 30,000 can attest to this.

Edit - un-cited anecdote snipped.Ā 
Ā 

To add some credence to the current DCS setup, I have never heard it mentioned that Vipers can break the Mach in Mil power, and they cannot in DCS (not that Iā€™ve achieved, anyway). The EPE Hornet Iā€™ve heard at least one reference(Mark Vizcarra, Aircrew Interview) to breaking through supersonic (high transonic, I suppose, but M1.0) at Mil, and this is represented in DCS also.Ā 


Edited by Brass2-1
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On 3/28/2022 at 5:37 PM, Brass2-1 said:

The EPE Hornet Iā€™ve heard at least one reference(Mark Vizcarra, Aircrew Interview) to breaking through supersonic (high transonic, I suppose, but M1.0) at Mil, and this is represented in DCS also.Ā 

Ā 

True... though surprisingly, I think Vizcarra's Hornet was an A at that time, which makes it even crazier if it was just the standard -400. Either way, cool interview.

And fun little side-note: The little old YF-17 Cobra was the first US aircraft to super-cruise without afterburner in level flight during the LWF competition with the YF-17. šŸ™‚

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Edited by wilbur81
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On 3/28/2022 at 3:26 AM, wilbur81 said:

I may very well be wrong... I just found it very surprising that my absolutely clean, 60% fuel Viper was being out accelerated in MIL power by that much (Clean Hornet was 7 seconds faster from 400kts to 0.9 Mach at 30K feet). I wouldn't think that a Hornet could ever out-accelerate a Viper when they were both clean.Ā Maybe the Hornet is as it should be but the Viper's MIL power isn't high enough currently? Again, from my tests above, ED has nearly perfectly NAILED IT for the Hornet in full afterburner... so, maybe they have too in MIL? Again, I wouldn't think that a Hornet (clean or not) could ever out-accelerate an absolutely slick Viper. That's where my question is coming from.

Ā 

Agree, same conclusions on my side.

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