Frustrated...

[Belphe]

Hi All,

 

As many of you I have great problems with hovering... I read most of the posts here, tried doing what they say and lost loads of time (instead of learning the cold start procedures by heart... ;))... Please, help!

 

I enter an already working, ready-to-fly chopper with a default - GROUND TRIM. I have PITCH, BANK and HEADING APs activated by default. I add ALT HOLD AP to them. I gently add power and lift off the ground. Slight foreward movement of the cyclic counterbalances the helo's slide to the back... OK, I think - all I need to do is trim this baby! :smartass: When I achieve "an almost stopped" position as I call it:D, I press the T button and release it imediately. I am smarter because I have read the manual that said all the NON-FORCE FEEDBACK joysticks (as is my X52) need to be brought back to neutral position just after pressing the T button... I do exactly that! And what happens? My helo gets even MORE backward slide movement and drops down from the sky...

 

I try again...

 

And again...

 

And... I'll just skip a few hours... :cry:

 

After a "while" I start to experiment... Perhaps all the four AP "holds" need to be deselected?? Who knows? Clueless as I am I struggle to make the damn thing at lease LEAN TO THE FRONT! No go! My personal Ka-50 can only go backwards... or even more backwards... No way I can trim it to go forwards... I skip this lesson...

 

1. Why trimming the "close to hover" helo brings it to a big, steep slide to the back?

2. What AP configuration should be used to create a hover? Bank? Pitch? Alt? Heading?

 

I move on... Perhaps I'll just use the Auto-Hover option - RAlt+T Oh no, I won't! Why? Cause it does exactly the same thing! It makes the helo go back and as it cancelles all the "holds" except from the ALT, I end up spinning round and crashing... Yes, you guessed right... - I ate my teeth on A-10 in Lock On but never flown a helo sim before...

 

Oh, but I will! I am stubborn and I will find a solution to this! ... Sooo.... :helpsmilie::helpsmilie::helpsmilie:

 

1. How does Auto-Hover work?

2. Why does it make my helo go backwards again? Yes, I know - the default, ground trim is set but I thought it's called AUTO for a reason...

3. How to operate Auto-Hover?

 

Last but not least - as I said I have an X52... It so happens the game makes a distinction between left and right Shift keys and the X52 profile editor doesn't... Is there a way to make it start???

 

Now, I am not angry as I am aware of the fact it is me who makes mistakes - not this superb sim... I just don't know how to learn to do it right! The manuals are so much NOT ENOUGH to get even the basic knowledge on how to master this beast... I hope I find some answers here. Please, have mercy and once again, for the thousenth time - explain these things to me and others with similar issues.

 

I'd be most gratefull for any kind of help!

 

Regards -

 

Darek G.

Edited December 15, 2008 by Belphe

[Moreno]

Well try it like this:

 

Press Right CTRL + Return, this brings up an overview of how the cyclic is trimmed. I just press the trimmer and hold it, then push the cyclic forward a bit and release the trimmer button, while putting the cyclic back to normal. That changed the trimming to a bit forward. If all worked well, you can see it on the TrimOverview window.

 

Conclusion: hold the Trimmer, Trim and release the button / key while putting your cyclic to normal...

 

If you have a well trimmed hovering state, you can switch on auto-hover without any problems.

 

I hope I could help you...All the best,

Moreno

[EvilBivol-1]

The autopilot has only 20% authority. This means that if you kept your default trim setting in flight, the Autopilot is unable to keep the helicopter from pitching back, because the cyclic is trimmed more than 20% back from where it needs to be to hover in place. To fix this, simply trim the stick forward. It is indeed called "Auto," not "Magic." :)

 

Take a breath, relax and know that once you get it down, she becomes easy to handle. You just have to tame her, which may take both time and effort. ;)

Edited December 15, 2008 by EvilBivol-1

[H-street]

Last but not least - as I said I have an X52... It so happens the game makes a distinction between left and right Shift keys and the X52 profile editor doesn't... Is there a way to make it start???

 

 

I was programming my X52 last night and if you right click and do New Advanced Command, it makes the distinction between Right and Left Alt/Shift/Control..

 

i learned this because my keystroke i had CTL+C wouldn't close the door lol! but the advanced command works..

 

when i get home i'll upload my X52 profile for anyone who wants to use it as a base for making their own..

[slug88]

Also, note that you should always have the AP roll, pitch, and yaw stabilizers engaged. When lifting off, if you chose to have the altitude stabilizer on, then you should be holding the collective lever for the duration of your climb, otherwise you're fighting the AP. Therefore I recommend keeping the altitude stabilizer off at first, as it's one less thing to worry about.

 

Now, you can't use auto hover for taking off, because auto hover is automatically disabled under 6m RALT. I believe this is a safety feature; you're expected to have full control when hovering at such a low altitude. So, as Moreno said, just turn on the input visualizer, and practice with the three necessary stabilizers engaged. Achieving a decent control hover was probably the most difficult maneuver I've had to learn so far in this great sim.

[Kenan]

Mangaroca, hovering in the BS is as easy as it gets. Trust me, I'm not saying this because I just want to show off (BTW, check http://www.kenanisawsome.com for the latest news on me!) but because it really is. Just follow this hillybilly-yahoo-simple-as it gets procedure (works for me, am I a yahoo?)

 

1. Reset your trim.

 

2. Second, you need to start slowing down by pulling the stick back (toward you). Make sure you hit the Target reset button in order to get the airspeed shown on your HUD.

 

3. Once the airspeed drops below 25 kph, slamm the Auto Hover Mode button and gently start moving the stick forward in order to, of course, steady the aircraft.

 

4. Once the airspeed is somewhere between 7-10 kph, you can hit the trim button once (presuming your chopper is in a generally leveled out position - not pitching up or down) and just leave it like its. The chopper and its Auto Hover mode will take over and gradually bring the airspeed to 0 kph.

 

Now, on some occasions if slowing down too fast, you can actually start flying BACKWARDS without realizing it (if your eyes are glued to the HUD airspeed indicator) so you should use your side views as well.

[Moreno]

the only not so awesome thing is this:

http://www.kenanisawsome.com could not be found. Please check the name and try again.

 

;) check your page, mate...

[Slayer]

I was programming my X52 last night and if you right click and do New Advanced Command, it makes the distinction between Right and Left Alt/Shift/Control..

 

i learned this because my keystroke i had CTL+C wouldn't close the door lol! but the advanced command works..

 

when i get home i'll upload my X52 profile for anyone who wants to use it as a base for making their own..

 

In SST the lefthand modifier keys just show ALT, SHIFT, CTRL etc. The righthand modifier keys say Right Shift, Right Alt, etc. There is a difference in SST and the game.

 

Also see my post in here http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35034 about the SST bug with right shift.

 

Try to stay away from advanced commands if you can unless you absolutely need it.

[H-street]

See i love the advanced commands, things like "Request Take-off" become a breeze :)

 

if anyone wants here is my DCS Blackshark v0.5.pro (PDF View) Work in progress, might be a good place to start to at least build your own.. I haven't gotten around to testing the Collective Spotlight Slew yet, but should work.. This also has a profile included for the Saitek Gamers Keyboard command pad. The only requirement is you have "Enable Clutch Mode" checked in the Gamers Control Panel. This makes the clutch a workign button.. Or remove the assignment from the profile.

 

I have run into the Right Shift bug in SST before, i have never figured out how to do RightShift + commands successfully.. Good thing nothing on the Collective of the Cyclic require a Right Shift + Command..

 

 

Press Right CTRL + Return, this brings up an overview of how the cyclic is trimmed. I just press the trimmer and hold it, then push the cyclic forward a bit and release the trimmer button, while putting the cyclic back to normal. That changed the trimming to a bit forward. If all worked well, you can see it on the TrimOverview window.

 

This is exactly what i needed, to be able to see where my trim was being set.. Great learning tool..

[H-street]

Here is how to set the trim, that Ctl-Enter is a life saver..

 

Here you can see where i've set my Trim

 

Here is the actual hover (no adjustment from the joystick)

[Mugatu]

Nice so far H-street, can you keep posting it as you update?

[Belphe]

Thanks ever so much for the replies! I kinda hoped for one or two but you guys made me believe again! ;P As soon as I finish work and get home I wll try all these. Thanks again for help!

 

Darek

[luckybob9]

Hi All,

 

I am smarter because I have read the manual that said all the NON-FORCE FEEDBACK joysticks (as is my X52) need to be brought back to neutral position just after pressing the T button... I do exactly that! And what happens? My helo gets even MORE backward slide movement and drops down from the sky...

 

umm, I dont have a force feedback stick and i dont return the stick to the center instantly and it works fine....let me take a video for you

[Mad Dog 7.62]

i learned this because my keystroke i had CTL+C wouldn't close the door lol! but the advanced command works..

 

I had to set "quanatize time" to 0.00 to get that and quite a few other commands to work right.

MD

[luckybob9]

Ok i take it back, after i trim, it seems that i have about one second to re-center the stick.

 

The trimmer is on my right index finger.

http://www.ironangelslockonsquad.com/videos/trim.rar

Edited December 16, 2008 by luckybob9

[MadChicken]

Yeah, it is important to remember that releasing the trim button sets the trim, and THEN re-center it. If ya take off as the OP said and push froward to compensate, then push the trim button and don't let go until after you start to re-center, what he described is what happens.

[luckybob9]

yes, you must PRESS AND HOLD the trim button BEFORE you start to trim. Then release it AFTER you are done. Then recenter the stick

[Belphe]

OK - I must admit: I haven't tried what you showed/explained... This may actually work! :P

 

Excuse my ignorance - it's just I have tried SO many times... :huh:

 

Either way, as soon as I'm back in front of my screen this is what I'm gonna go for:

 

1. Jump into a ready-to-fly helo with Heading, Pitch and Bank Holds ON.

2. Slightly increase the collective and go up to about 10 metres.

3. Slightly compensate forward on the cyclic and try to bring the helo to a standstill.

4. Press and hold the T button: then the helo will probably start sliding backwards but I will compensate this movement with even greater FORWARD cyclic movement untill the helo is close to a standstill again.

5. Release the T button followed by releasing the cyclic not more than a second later allowing the helo to level.

 

Have I got it right? I will probably use the RCTRL+ENTER tool to visualize what I'm doing and what is actually happening with the trims while I interact.

 

Thanks again for help! I just hope yesterday was a bad dream and it'll all work properly today.

 

Regards -

Darek

[H-street]

Here is how i do it now,

 

Do startup proceedure.

 

Bank, Alt, Pitch auto pilot on

 

push forward on the cyclic until the Rctl+enter is exactly 1 diamond above the center line (the bottom of the diamond touches the line)- Press and Release T.. the diamond should stay where you had it when you pressed and released T.

 

now throttle up.. you probably won't be far off and shouldn't go back.

 

i found its essential to start out with the right trim, or else if your like me, you'll overcompensate.

 

its all i've been doing for the last 3 hours is practicing my h overing..

 

i was actually able to set it dow on the carriage without damage :)

[therion_prime]

yes, you must PRESS AND HOLD the trim button BEFORE you start to trim. Then release it AFTER you are done. Then recenter the stick

 

Not entirely true, there is another method.

Change attitude -> push trim button quickly -> immediately let go of the controls -> tested and works perfectly.

[Kula66]

Many of my early problems were a faulty button on my cougar - the S4 button, which by default mapped to trim and would randomly trigger when I mvoed the stick ... so check for hardware faults.

[sonic]

Here is how i do it now,

 

Do startup proceedure.

 

Bank, Alt, Pitch auto pilot on

 

push forward on the cyclic until the Rctl+enter is exactly 1 diamond above the center line (the bottom of the diamond touches the line)- Press and Release T.. the diamond should stay where you had it when you pressed and released T.

 

now throttle up.. you probably won't be far off and shouldn't go back.

 

i found its essential to start out with the right trim, or else if your like me, you'll overcompensate.

 

its all i've been doing for the last 3 hours is practicing my h overing..

 

i was actually able to set it dow on the carriage without damage :)

 

Trimming BEFORE takeoff is what works best for me too

[Moreno]

Many of my early problems were a faulty button on my cougar - the S4 button, which by default mapped to trim and would randomly trigger when I mvoed the stick ... so check for hardware faults.

 

I also have it on the S4 Button and it works great (as it isn't faulty). Thanks to Maverick's Layout. I'm working on expanding it a bit....

[Belphe]

I spent the last 3 hours searching for the answer to my problems and I think I found a solution!

 

I read the FAQ (which proves right the expression: "when everything else fails, read the manual"... :music_whistling:) which clearly says that the FF in a different controler, e.g. a steering wheel OR the device itself can cause undesired helo behavior. I owe Saitek R440 FF Steering Wheel and as far as I remember I haven't switched the FF off! :doh:

Damn, I still need to stay at work for two hours more but as soon as I'm home turning it off will be the first thing I do!

 

Keep your fingers crossed! :thumbup:

 

BTW, I was planning to get rid of the wheel anyway because Santa is to bring me my new Saitek Rudder Pedals this Christmas... Hopefully, as they have NO FF they will perfectly cooperate with my X52!

 

Regards -

Darek

Edited December 16, 2008 by Belphe

[nemises]

I use saitek pedals with X52, no problem...DCS detects them as a seperate device and the Axis (3) can be bound as Axis, or you can set up Bands in SST and use the toe pedals as buttons.. I use left toe brake for wheel brake, which is an Axis (allthough the Blackshark itself doesn't have differntial braking apprently..news to me , but if you look at the brake level on the cyclic, you can see it actually just clicks a button lol!) , and the right toe brake as Push-To-Talk or teamspeak....rudder Axis as rudder of course.