streakeagle Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) From the MiG-15bis.lua: Quote declare_weapon({category = CAT_SHELLS,name = "N37_37x155_HEI_T", user_name = _("N37_37x155_HEI_T"), mass = 0.722, round_mass = 1.250+0.115, -- round + link cartridge_mass = 0.0, -- 0.413+0.115, cartridges are ejected explosive = 0.410, life_time = 5.0, caliber = 37.0, declare_weapon({category = CAT_SHELLS,name = "N37_37x155_API_T", user_name = _("N37_37x155_API_T "), model_name = "tracer_bullet_crimson", mass = 0.765, round_mass = 1.294+0.115, -- round + link cartridge_mass = 0.0, -- 0.413+0.115, cartridges are ejected explosive = 0.410, life_time = 5.0, caliber = 37.0, declare_weapon({category = CAT_SHELLS,name = "NR23_23x115_HEI_T", user_name = _("NR23_23x115_HEI_T"), model_name = "tracer_bullet_crimson", mass = 0.196, round_mass = 0.340+0.071, -- round + link cartridge_mass = 0.0, -- 0.111+0.071, cartridges are ejected explosive = 0.011, life_time = 5.0, caliber = 23.0, declare_weapon({category = CAT_SHELLS,name = "NR23_23x115_API", user_name = _("NR23_23x115_API"), model_name = "tracer_bullet_crimson", mass = 0.199, round_mass = 0.340+0.071, -- round + link cartridge_mass = 0.0, -- 0.111+0.071, cartridges are ejected explosive = 0.000, life_time = 5.0, caliber = 23.0, Edited March 28, 2022 by streakeagle [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streakeagle Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 There is definitely an inconsistency in the explosive values between the 23mm and the 37mm. In real life, the 23mm has about 18 grams of explosive in the HEI round, so the DCS value of 0.011 may be ED's assessment of the kg of explosive in an HEI-T round. Notice the 23 mm API round has an explosive value of 0. Even if ED's value isn't in "kg", it should be proportional to the mass of the explosive, perhaps multiplied by a co-efficient representing the relative efficiency of the type of explosive used. In real life, the 37mm has about 40 grams of explosive in the HEI round, so the DCS value of 0.410 may a typo and should have been 0.041 if that is ED's assessment of the kg of explosive in the HEI-T round. Even if the explosive value isn't expressed in "kg", the type of explosive used in the two rounds is probably the same, so the explosive values should be proportional, making the 0.410 value over 10 times more than it should have been compared to the 23mm round. Notice the 37 mm API-T round has the same value as the HEI-T round, which is definitely a mistake. Does anyone know how the explosive values are determined and whether both the 23mm and 37mm values are correct? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha-down0 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Video of strafing with the 37mm. Explosive effects seem a little large for the payload. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awHBBpkdKJo mig15n37.trk Early Cold War Servers https://discord.gg/VGC7JxJWDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadepiece Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Any news here? Would love to see the guns getting a little attention. Also would love to hear if the new damage model was ever going to make it to the Korean ear birds. Fire only at close range, and only when your opponent is properly in your sights. -Hauptmann Oswald Boelcke, Jasta 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vapor_12 Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 Yeah I was strafing a convoy yesterday and I was wondering from detonation size if I was actually chucking 100lb bombs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303_Kermit Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) On 3/28/2022 at 3:34 PM, streakeagle said: There is definitely an inconsistency in the explosive values between the 23mm and the 37mm. In real life, the 23mm has about 18 grams of explosive in the HEI round, so the DCS value of 0.011 may be ED's assessment of the kg of explosive in an HEI-T round. Notice the 23 mm API round has an explosive value of 0. Even if ED's value isn't in "kg", it should be proportional to the mass of the explosive, perhaps multiplied by a co-efficient representing the relative efficiency of the type of explosive used. In real life, the 37mm has about 40 grams of explosive in the HEI round, so the DCS value of 0.410 may a typo and should have been 0.041 if that is ED's assessment of the kg of explosive in the HEI-T round. Even if the explosive value isn't expressed in "kg", the type of explosive used in the two rounds is probably the same, so the explosive values should be proportional, making the 0.410 value over 10 times more than it should have been compared to the 23mm round. Notice the 37 mm API-T round has the same value as the HEI-T round, which is definitely a mistake. Does anyone know how the explosive values are determined and whether both the 23mm and 37mm values are correct? May I ask for your source? In internet it's hard to even find precise weight of bullet (about ~0,5kg). I would understand 300 grams . 40 grams is a bit ... Small amount. You must also be aware that there's several 37mm shells in Russian army, and the other one is totally different type of ammunition, with more propellant. Also currently 37mm seems only doing some flash effects without any damage Edited May 13, 2022 by 303_Kermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303_Kermit Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) On 3/28/2022 at 4:34 PM, 2alpha-down0 said: Video of strafing with the 37mm. Explosive effects seem a little large for the payload. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awHBBpkdKJo mig15n37.trk 1.66 MB · 6 downloads If you post something like that it's necessary to compare with some real guncams. It seems for you to large? fine for me it's not, and for someone else it's strange that actually you can't kill M113. All you can take down is a truck. Did you know about i? It's not even precise test or comparsion with some simillar gun. It's rubbish. US Air forces in the '70 made tests of a captured Lim-5bis (MiG-17F Polish production). There were a tests of 23mm and 37mm cannons. See for yourself It's a 0,5kg bullet. I don't know amount of explosive, but even if it's as little as 40g please be aware that's more as it is in hand granade. It's a big bullet. Edited May 13, 2022 by 303_Kermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streakeagle Posted May 13, 2022 Author Share Posted May 13, 2022 You accept that the 37mm round has 37 times more explosive power than a 23mm round because of gun camera footage? There is no magic in physics. By ED's own numbers, the mass of the 37mm round is 0.722 vs the 23mm's 0.196. You don't get 37 times the power for 3.5 times the mass. Either the 37mm round has an erroneous value, or all of the other rounds is DCS have values that are too low. I would like to know the data that ED used to define their rounds and what the explosive value in the definition represents, i.e. mass? energy? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303_Kermit Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 It's definitely not that powerful in practice. I never took down a F86 With single 37mm hit. In real combat practice it was enough to take down even bigger planes. I'm not computer programming geek, but I just know that 37mm is a rubbish. Lot of noise - nothing in trousers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streakeagle Posted May 16, 2022 Author Share Posted May 16, 2022 I don't know what sim you are playing, but I when I have flown the MiG-15bis on multiplayer servers, I used 23mm for dogfighting/ranging, but when an F-86 gives me a solid shot, I tap the 37mm and usually blow the F-86 out of the sky with a single tap if I hit. As for the data on the rounds, I have little doubt that this website is mostly correct aside from a few obvious typos: From 37mm to 40mm - The Russian Ammunition Page (russianammo.org) I never questioned the performance of the 37mm round in DCS, because in reality, it was that effective. What I am questioning is the relative effectiveness. Given the masses of explosive used in the rounds, why does DCS give the 37mm round a massively higher explosive value than the 23mm? It doesn't make sense. If two rounds use the same explosive material, then the energy released by the explosion is directly proportional to the mass of the explosive. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303_Kermit Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 23mm with 172g bullet from NS -23 gives 47,900 J Kinetic Energy; 2,8g HE + 3,3g incediary 37mm HEI-T from N37 (~500g bullet mass) gives about 80 000 J Kinetic Energy, Conventional HEI-T shell filled with 37g of HEI, self-destruction nose fuzes A-37, A-37U or B-37 fitted Maybe 10x more explosives is the reason why it has 10x bigger explosive power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stop being lazy. Data are available in internet. Instead of writing "I think..." actually start thinking. Instead of typing "In my opinion ... " build opinion on available sources. Source: http://www.russianammo.org/Russian_Ammunition_Page_37mm.html http://www.russianammo.org/Russian_Ammunition_Page_25mm.html With my best regards Kermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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