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Single player pilot/CPG role switching confusion


Hippo

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Still trying to set up controllers and work out how things work; sorry if I'm getting things wrong or misunderstanding in what I write below.  I wish to fly single player only.

Initially I noticed that if I swapped from pilot to cpg (no george) and back that the controls trim would reset and I could lose control of the helo.  I worked around this by disabling the ai auto handover (in special), and this is what I'm using now.

Now I'm playing around with George.

So I start a mission as pilot and am flying, and switch to CPG and "turn on" George (by using binding "george ai show/hide").  I would've expected George to then take control, but it doesn't unless I hit "request aircraft control" which appears to enable/disable the controls in the CPG seat (i.e. the cyclic is (un)stowed).  My understading is that the CPG using collective / cyclic controls is very unusual IRL, so this behaviour doesn't appear optimal to me.

I think there should be an option to carry on using the pilot's collective and cyclic axes (and pedals, and trim release) when in the CPG seat. I think I would've preferred for George to take/release control of the helo whenever the AI controls are displayed in the CPG seat, and I should not have to use the "request aircraft control" for this, and go back to pilot axes control when George is not displayed.  Separately, keep the option to use the CPG collective/cyclic as an emergency and very rarely used option.

Again no doubt I'm missing and getting things wrong, and appreciate it's inherently difficult to translate a 2-pilot into single player, but I am finding some of the choices not quite optimal.  Hopefully I'm explaining myself correctly (though I'm finding it tricky to do so).

*** Having said that, many thanks for all the work on the module, which is even at this early stage quite outstanding ***.


Edited by Hippo
clarity, spelling
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System spec: Intel i9 13900KF @ stock,  Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB GDDR6X, Gigabyte Z690 UD DDR4, Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO SL 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600MHz C18, Samsung 980 EVO 500 GB NVME M.2 SSD (system drive), Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB NVME M.2 SSD (games drive), Cooler Master ML360 Illusion CPU Cooler, Asus XG43UQ Monitor, Oculus Quest Pro, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

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My habit is to do all the flying I want from the pilots seat and use rockets and guns as desired and then switch to the CPG seat for Hellfires. Once I'm in the CPG seat I wont go back to the Pilot seat, I'll control GEORGE back to home, he will get me to a 10ft hover but will not land, so, I'll take control of the aircraft with C and his trims will hold and I'll just drop the engine RPM or the collective to descend the last 10ft in a stable state to land.


Edited by IanC58
more info

74_Fox

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3 minutes ago, IanC58 said:

My habit is to do all the flying I want from the pilots seat and then switch to the CPG seat for weapons. Once I'm in the CPG seat I wont go back to the Pilot seat, I'll control GEORGE back to home, he will get me to a 10ft hover but will not land, so, I'll take control of the aircraft with C and his trims will hold and I'll just drop the engine RPM or the collective to descend the last 10ft in a stable state to land.

Which is perfectly fine.  I, however, would like to switch between roles as often as I like, with as little fuss as possible, and have so far found the current mechanism a bit clunky.  Hence my suggestion.  The use of the C key in this way would suggest that the CPG often takes control of the helo for normal flying tasks, which I understand to be unrealistic.

System spec: Intel i9 13900KF @ stock,  Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB GDDR6X, Gigabyte Z690 UD DDR4, Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO SL 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600MHz C18, Samsung 980 EVO 500 GB NVME M.2 SSD (system drive), Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB NVME M.2 SSD (games drive), Cooler Master ML360 Illusion CPU Cooler, Asus XG43UQ Monitor, Oculus Quest Pro, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

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And switching seats in the air is "realistic"? If they fix the clunky seat exchange that will be great but it is what it is for now.

If GEORGE is flying and takes one i think id like to fly from the CPG seat to get home.


Edited by IanC58
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74_Fox

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  • ED Team

Thanks for the feedback, but the way the different positions are seperated with keybinds is the best option. 

It allows the same buttons to be used for different actions when you switch.

Same for the George AI menu, when you activate it you can use a four way hat to control it, when you hide it the same hat switch can now be used in the cockpit. 

Hope that helps explain the reasoning for the separation of the inputs.

As for what happens when you switch position, its important to be in a level stable flight condition before switch, otherwise you are asking to much of George, also when switching back to the pilot try to setup the collective to be around the same position, this will help prevent low rpm warnings. 

thanks

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49 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Thanks for the feedback, but the way the different positions are seperated with keybinds is the best option. 

It allows the same buttons to be used for different actions when you switch.

Same for the George AI menu, when you activate it you can use a four way hat to control it, when you hide it the same hat switch can now be used in the cockpit. 

Hope that helps explain the reasoning for the separation of the inputs.

As for what happens when you switch position, its important to be in a level stable flight condition before switch, otherwise you are asking to much of George, also when switching back to the pilot try to setup the collective to be around the same position, this will help prevent low rpm warnings. 

thanks

Thanks for replying   I'm only suggesting an option to keep the 3 main pilot axis bindings (cyclic, collective, anti-torque) and perhaps the force trim hat functions active in the cpg position.  Just the basic functions for flying the aircraft.  Everything else would stay as it is.  From your response, I get the impression that you think i'm suggesting something far more drastic.  I see very little need (esp in single player) to use the CPG HOCAS and think forcing the player to use it to fly the helo from the CPG seat is needlessly cumbersome, and does not reflect how the helo is flown irl.   Sorry if i'm misunderstanding you, as I agree with everything you say; but I don't think any of your points above conflict with the point I'm trying to make.


Edited by Hippo

System spec: Intel i9 13900KF @ stock,  Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB GDDR6X, Gigabyte Z690 UD DDR4, Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO SL 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600MHz C18, Samsung 980 EVO 500 GB NVME M.2 SSD (system drive), Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB NVME M.2 SSD (games drive), Cooler Master ML360 Illusion CPU Cooler, Asus XG43UQ Monitor, Oculus Quest Pro, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

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37 minutes ago, IanC58 said:

And switching seats in the air is "realistic"? If they fix the clunky seat exchange that will be great but it is what it is for now.

Of course  not.  But it's an unavoidable necessity for single player.  I'm suggesting a way that I think it could be improved.  I may or may not be right, but if no-one says anything other than "it is what it is" then how can you expect anything to ever improve?

38 minutes ago, IanC58 said:

If GEORGE is flying and takes one i think id like to fly from the CPG seat to get home.

Indeed, and that is the sort of (emergency) situation where the CPG cyclic and collective would be used, as I tried to argue above.

System spec: Intel i9 13900KF @ stock,  Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB GDDR6X, Gigabyte Z690 UD DDR4, Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO SL 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600MHz C18, Samsung 980 EVO 500 GB NVME M.2 SSD (system drive), Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB NVME M.2 SSD (games drive), Cooler Master ML360 Illusion CPU Cooler, Asus XG43UQ Monitor, Oculus Quest Pro, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

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2 hours ago, Hippo said:

I think I would've preferred for George to take/release control of the helo whenever the AI controls are displayed in the CPG seat, and I should not have to use the "request aircraft control" for this, and go back to pilot axes control when George is not displayed.

Personally I am happy with the AI auto handover when swapping seats but if it is not enabled then I think this makes a lot of sense otherwise what is George (as the Pilot) meant to do without aircraft control? It makes the take control (or give back control to pilot in this case) function seem redundant, by inference calling up the George AI panel should also give control.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Frederf said:

image.png

What happens with this option on and off? I never thought about using the "request control" function in single player.

As far as I can tell it has the following effects:

If on:  when switching from pilot to cpg, George automatically takes over flying and flies the aircraft whether the George interface is displayed or not.  Selecting "request aircraft control" will deactivate George, and allow you to control the a/c, assuming you've mapped the CP cyclic/collective/at/trim.

If off:  when switching from pilot to cpg, George does not automatically take over flying.  You have control of the a/c, assuming you've mapped the CPG cyclic/collective/at/trim.  Hiding or showing the George interface does not affect this - you must use "request aircraft control" for George to start / stop flying the aircraft.

i find that when I switch back to pilot when George is flying, that my controls (TM Warthog) are resynched and George's trim settings are lost causing a loss of control.  Since i like to switch between the positions quite often I prefer to disable the auto handover option.

"Request aircraft control" appears to mean "make the CPG controls (in)active", and the cyclic can be seen to be (un)stowed when it is used.  With the cyclic unstowed the George interface can still be used, and he replies to commands, but doesn't actually fly the aircraft.


Edited by Hippo
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System spec: Intel i9 13900KF @ stock,  Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB GDDR6X, Gigabyte Z690 UD DDR4, Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO SL 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600MHz C18, Samsung 980 EVO 500 GB NVME M.2 SSD (system drive), Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB NVME M.2 SSD (games drive), Cooler Master ML360 Illusion CPU Cooler, Asus XG43UQ Monitor, Oculus Quest Pro, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

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