The F-35 Thread

[Hummingbird]

I just hope we (RDAF) get it on schedule, because our F-16's are getting old since we for some stupid reason never bothered to upgrade them.

[Hummingbird]

Many people said the same thing about the F-15, until the F-22 came out. Then, many said it about the F-22 until the F-35. I see a trend.

 

The F-22 was infact also deemed too expensive. Hence it had its production line shut down.

 

I just hope the same wont be the case with the F-35, and I also hope that maintaining the aircraft won't be as big of a hazzle as it was/is with the F-22, cause god knows a small country like ours won't be able to effectively afford that.

[AMEDooley]

Funny thing is...

 

I hear nothing but good things from Active Duty Military on the F-35.

 

The only Negativity is coming from the Press and people that blindly swallow everything they report.

 

Yeah the plane is really good. We got an update from the guys at red flag and they said they were kicking ass. The only time anyone knows they're there is when they want them to know. None had been "shot down" so that's a plus. There are some problems for sure, but if you've ever been on a new platform, it's nothing out of the ordinary.

[probad]

defensenews was reporting 1 f-35 "downed" to aggressors, but no details about by what or how.

 

15:1 against superior numbers is an impressive showing for sure

[Sweep]

Lol...Inb4 "F-16 vs F-35" HUD tape shows up on youtube.

 

:megalol:

[Boagrius]

Exactly. The press is just being sensationalist. They love to throw out big numbers and interview people like Pierre Sprey (who is an idiot) in order to throw out clickbait headlines. But when you actually look at the numbers, the price is starting to beat out the 4.5 Eurocannards, the pilots adore it, and it just when 15:1 in Red Flag 17-1, and its primary role isn't even air to air.

 

Not to mention the fact that it's still using what? Block 3i software? Fast forward to block 4 + expanded AAM carriage, (with further time for crews to master the platform/CONOPS) and I imagine the results would be even more positive.

[mvsgas]

I just hope we (RDAF) get it on schedule, because our F-16's are getting old since we for some stupid reason never bothered to upgrade them.

 

That is weird, they seem to have a lot of upgrades. Structural, engine, avionics, capabilities, etc.

So, what do you mean?

[Hummingbird]

That is weird, they seem to have a lot of upgrades. Structural, engine, avionics, capabilities, etc.

So, what do you mean?

 

Never was the wrong word to use, but it has been a long time since the last update AFAIK, we still have a few versions that can't carry AMRAAMS, and they are the ones on quick alert o.O

 

Our most advanced versions are the ones on international duty.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Hummingbird

[SkateZilla]

The F-22 was infact also deemed too expensive. Hence it had its production line shut down.

 

I just hope the same wont be the case with the F-35, and I also hope that maintaining the aircraft won't be as big of a hazzle as it was/is with the F-22, cause god knows a small country like ours won't be able to effectively afford that.

 

F-22A was based off old 80s Tech,

 

The Issues w/ the F-22A wont be the same as the F-35's.

 

F-22As Literally Run old Sub 100MHz Processors that you can't buy anymore, and Aren't 64-Bit Compatible.

 

So Any New Weapon or OFP has to be Re-Compiled to work w/ an Old 32-Bit Environment and limits, which is why some of the new Missiles are not Active w/ the F-22A.

 

Further More, the F-22 Was not a Export Program, therefore no international Sales were to be affected by shutting down the program.

 

The money lost on the F-22A Program was only to the unit cost / flyaway cost of the 18x Airframes.

 

They couldnt make more if they wanted to without spending an obscene amount of money rebuilding the lines and re-storing the tooling, half of which is MIA, only to be faced w/ the same limitations of the processors that they cannot even get ahold of,

 

Which is why they were "Looking" at F-22B w/ expensive Items removed and re-vamped computer systems.

 

But it would still require an obscene amount of money.

 

15:1 Kill to Death Ratio in it's First Red Flag Exercise w/ a still not complete software core.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Funny thing is...

 

I hear nothing but good things from Active Duty Military on the F-35.

 

The only Negativity is coming from the Press and people that blindly swallow everything they report.

 

Ohoh! But, I do actually know of a Viper maintainer that griped about the F-35.

 

But, having to learn a new air frame to work on would be pretty annoying, regardless.

 

So, this account then gets turned into "F-16 mechanic hates F-35!"

[Hummingbird]

F-22A was based off old 80s Tech,

 

The Issues w/ the F-22A wont be the same as the F-35's.

 

F-22As Literally Run old Sub 100MHz Processors that you can't buy anymore, and Aren't 64-Bit Compatible.

 

So Any New Weapon or OFP has to be Re-Compiled to work w/ an Old 32-Bit Environment and limits, which is why some of the new Missiles are not Active w/ the F-22A.

 

Further More, the F-22 Was not a Export Program, therefore no international Sales were to be affected by shutting down the program.

 

The money lost on the F-22A Program was only to the unit cost / flyaway cost of the 18x Airframes.

 

They couldnt make more if they wanted to without spending an obscene amount of money rebuilding the lines and re-storing the tooling, half of which is MIA, only to be faced w/ the same limitations of the processors that they cannot even get ahold of,

 

Which is why they were "Looking" at F-22B w/ expensive Items removed and re-vamped computer systems.

 

But it would still require an obscene amount of money.

 

15:1 Kill to Death Ratio in it's First Red Flag Exercise w/ a still not complete software core.

 

Well here's to hoping the the F-35 won't turn out to be a nightmare to maintain then, esp. the anti radar coatings.

[Tirak]

Well here's to hoping the the F-35 won't turn out to be a nightmare to maintain then, esp. the anti radar coatings.

 

That was one of the big deals about the F-35. By baking the coatings into the skin, the topcoats need to be reapplied less often. In terms of coatings, the F-35 is the least maintenance intensive of the Stealth aircraft. It was also designed to be "One Deep", so you could access parts with the absolute minimum of disassembly of the rest of the airframe.

[Seaeagle]

Never was the wrong word to use, but it has been a long time since the last update AFAIK,

 

They are actually quite current as far as upgrades are concerned - most are Block 15s upgraded to MLU Tape 6.5 standard. In 2013 "new"(second hand) F100 PW 220E engines were bought to replace the old F100 PW 200(because spareparts became unavailable). So the biggest issue is with worn-down airframes, but AFAIK there is an ongoing structural life enhancement program, which should extend their service life beyond 2024.

 

we still have a few versions that can't carry AMRAAMS, and they are the ones on quick alert o.O

 

There are only 7 of those. They are Block 10s upgraded to MLU Tape 4.3. The reason why these cannot carry AMRAAMs is due to structural limitations of the Block 10 airframes.

[mvsgas]

Ohoh! But, I do actually know of a Viper maintainer that griped about the F-35.

 

But, having to learn a new air frame to work on would be pretty annoying, regardless.

 

So, this account then gets turned into "F-16 mechanic hates F-35!"

 

We hate and gripe about a lot of things, worry only when we are not complaining.

[Hummingbird]

They are actually quite current as far as upgrades are concerned - most are Block 15s upgraded to MLU Tape 6.5 standard. In 2013 "new"(second hand) F100 PW 220E engines were bought to replace the old F100 PW 200(because spareparts became unavailable). So the biggest issue is with worn-down airframes, but AFAIK there is an ongoing structural life enhancement program, which should extend their service life beyond 2024.

 

There are only 7 of those. They are Block 10s upgraded to MLU Tape 4.3. The reason why these cannot carry AMRAAMs is due to structural limitations of the Block 10 airframes.

 

Yet for some odd reason we're using these 7 for QRA, which is just bonkers IMHO, they should've been updated (or replaced) along with 20 or so on international duty.

 

So since we're now committed to the F-35 I hope we get it fast so that we can effectively protect our own airspace again. I remember being shocked when I learned that our QRA aircraft didn't even carry AMRAAMs, I had always thought they were atleast as up to date as our international fleet.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Hummingbird

[probad]

i was not aware you guys were so in danger of being involved in serious airspace confrontations!

[Sweep]

Yet for some odd reason we're using these 7 for QRA, which is just bonkers IMHO, they should've been updated (or replaced) along with 20 or so on international duty.

 

So since we're now committed to the F-35 I hope we get it fast so that we can effectively protect our own airspace again. I remember being shocked when I learned that our QRA aircraft didn't even carry AMRAAMs, I had always thought they were atleast as up to date as our international fleet.

 

Polish MiG-29s fly Archers-only now for QRAs...And they are a heck of a lot more threatened in the air than Denmark.

 

Using 7 older aircraft for relatively-peacetime QRA isn't bonkers, it's sensible.

 

Just wait until your F-35s fly 'em guns only. :megalol:

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

We hate and gripe about a lot of things, worry only when we are not complaining.

 

In my own civil experience flying, that just means I'm about to get a check from you that has a 0 on the end that I'm quite positive has been misplaced.

[Seaeagle]

Yet for some odd reason we're using these 7 for QRA, which is just bonkers IMHO, they should've been updated (or replaced) along with 20 or so on international duty.

 

We are not at war with any of our neighbors Hummingbird - QRA missions in peacetime usually involves scrambling to VID unidentified aircraft approaching or entering our airspace and in case of the latter, to escort them out.....not shooting them down at BVR :) .

[Seaeagle]

i was not aware you guys were so in danger of being involved in serious airspace confrontations!

 

We are not - not serious ones anyway. Russian aircraft approaching our airspace(I guess to test our reaction time) is not uncommon, but although the press often likes to make a big deal of it, the airforce usually describe the incidents as "routine" and "undramatic".

[AMEDooley]

Ohoh! But, I do actually know of a Viper maintainer that griped about the F-35.

 

But, having to learn a new air frame to work on would be pretty annoying, regardless.

 

So, this account then gets turned into "F-16 mechanic hates F-35!"

 

 

I transitioned from F/A-18 to C-17 to F-16 and now to the F-35 and I can tell you its the best plane I've ever worked on. The biggest problem that most maintainers have is that ALIS is a pain and they hate that it has no gages. But mostly they hate that its new and the tech data is still a WIP. But if anyone has ever worked on a new platform they'll tell you that its completely normal. Once you get past "what you're used to" and move into the "this is what it is" most people find that its not as bad as they were making it out, and its better than the 16.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I transitioned from F/A-18 to C-17 to F-16 and now to the F-35 and I can tell you its the best plane I've ever worked on. The biggest problem that most maintainers have is that ALIS is a pain and they hate that it has no gages. But mostly they hate that its new and the tech data is still a WIP. But if anyone has ever worked on a new platform they'll tell you that its completely normal. Once you get past "what you're used to" and move into the "this is what it is" most people find that its not as bad as they were making it out, and its better than the 16.

 

I suspected the reaction would be similar if you were to transition from Viper to Bug, or Viper to Raptor, or anything else for that matter.

 

Growing pains, really.

[Hummingbird]

We are not at war with any of our neighbors Hummingbird - QRA missions in peacetime usually involves scrambling to VID unidentified aircraft approaching or entering our airspace and in case of the latter, to escort them out.....not shooting them down at BVR :) .

 

Well I don't think any attack is going to come with a warning first ;)

 

Our QRA aircraft need to be up to date, like those of our neighbours Germany, Britain, Norway & Sweden.

 

Norwegian QRA F-16's (Latest MLU Tape AFAIK):

 

Not being prepared is the sure way to a day 1 catastrophy.

[Hummingbird]

Polish MiG-29s fly Archers-only now for QRAs...And they are a heck of a lot more threatened in the air than Denmark.

 

Using 7 older aircraft for relatively-peacetime QRA isn't bonkers, it's sensible.

 

Just wait until your F-35s fly 'em guns only. :megalol:

 

Well we might as well be flying our QRA aircraft completely stripped then, that way they could also climb and reach any UFO much quicker ;)

 

No in all seriousness our airforces all need to be prepared, and that involves having QRA aircraft capable of taking on the possible aerial threats effectively - which doesn't just mean carrying AMRAAMs, but actually having all the latest avionics in general.

[probad]

praytell what would be the strategic value of warning nato of an attack by headshotting denmark???