Gpu upgrade advice

[Eaglewings]

I got an email from microcenter today of Asus cutting prices for their graphic cards.
I have been meaning to upgrade from my trusty gtx 1060 to the rtx 3070 Ti to help with VR play.
Microcenter has this for $699.99, $100 above msrp, is this a good time jump in on it and get one?
 
Advice please?
 
 

[LucShep]

For all we know, this may be the best time to buy a GPU in a very long time.... or not.

There'll be new GPU gen launches at the end of the year (Nvidia RTX4000 and AMD RX7000 series) but... even if faster, prices and availability may be horrid again (noone knows).
Intel ARC is getting out in a couple of months, its flagship is supposed to be equivalent to an RTX3070Ti but with 16GB VRAM and at lower prices.... or not.
World going crazy with current events and whatnot, who knows if all of a sudden something drastically inflates GPU prices and cuts their availability once again.... or not.

So, if you want that new GPU right now and it's close to MSRP (unthinkable just a few weeks back), and the above doesn't bother you, then.... why not going for it?

Edited April 1, 2022 by LucShep

[Eaglewings]

For all we know, this may be the best time to buy a GPU in a very long time.... or not.

There'll be new GPU gen launches at the end of the year (Nvidia RTX4000 and AMD RX7000 series) but... even if faster, prices and availability may be horrid again (noone knows).
Intel ARC is getting out in a couple of months, its flagship is supposed to be equivalent to an RTX3070Ti but with 16GB VRAM and at lower prices.... or not.
World going crazy with current events and whatnot, who knows if something drastically inflates GPU prices and cuts their availability once again.... or not.

So, if you want that new GPU right now and it's close to MSRP (unthinkable just a few weeks back), and the above doesn't bother you, then.... why not going for it?

Thanks LucShep, never had a chance like this.
I might just have to go for.

[DeltaMike]

Dunno about 3070ti for VR.  Depends on the headset.  Almost certainly not enough for G2 without mods.  It is possible to get even a 3070 running but it's rather complicated.  3080 or better should work right out of the box, 6800 or 6900XT with a bit of tuning

[Eaglewings]

Dunno about 3070ti for VR.  Depends on the headset.  Almost certainly not enough for G2 without mods.  It is possible to get even a 3070 running but it's rather complicated.  3080 or better should work right out of the box, 6800 or 6900XT with a bit of tuning

Thanks Deltamike.
An overwhelming opinions here seems to go in favour of NVIDIA cards if doing dcs in VR. The green cards does better in 1440p and above comparatively and if this translate to VR which are more like 2k and 4k resolution, they look more situable.

Original plan was to get the red cards because they have lots of vram going for them but was swayed to Nvidia cards.

[DeltaMike]

34 minutes ago, Eaglewings said:

Thanks Deltamike.
An overwhelming here opinion seems to go in favour of NVIDIA cards if doing dcs in VR. The green cards does better in 1440p and above comparatively and if this translate to VR which are more like 2k and 4k resolution, they look more situable.

Original plan was to get the red cards because they have lots of vram going for them but was swayed to Nvidia cards.

Interestingly 6900XT seems a smidge better than the 3080 when tested head to head in DCS, with the G2 anyway.  

Now, the 3080ti.... that's a nice looking GPU.  Wish they were around at today's prices a few months ago.  AMD can't touch that

[SkateZilla]

Wait a few months.

prices will drop drastically

[FR4GGL3]

16 hours ago, DeltaMike said:

Interestingly 6900XT seems a smidge better than the 3080 when tested head to head in DCS, with the G2 anyway. 

The 6900XT should be a bit faster than the 3080. Although nvidia seems to be better in DCS. That might be different if the transition to Vulkan is done (high hopes here). The problem of the 3080 is its VRAM. Even 12 GB could be a bit low for VR in the future. So I wouldn't buy one today. 

It is really difficult today. I would say if you think about VR, you better get all the fastest stuff out there. And as the prices are still high, wait another few months - because you really need FAST Hardware.

 

[Eaglewings]

Wait a few months.

prices will drop drastically

Copy that. Been monitoring closely on a daily bases since launch of new series.
The new openXR tool kit application seems to have just given my card some lifeline for the wait.
Visuals and playability greatly improved with that app in comparison with steamvr .
Thanks as always

[Eaglewings]

The 6900XT should be a bit faster than the 3080. Although nvidia seems to be better in DCS. That might be different if the transition to Vulkan is done (high hopes here). The problem of the 3080 is its VRAM. Even 12 GB could be a bit low for VR in the future. So I wouldn't buy one today. 
It is really difficult today. I would say if you think about VR, you better get all the fastest stuff out there. And as the prices are still high, wait another few months - because you really need FAST Hardware.
 

I have the same conviction about Vulkan on amd cards. Hopes are really high for the implementation of the new graphic engine and multithread.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Dudikoff]

41 minutes ago, Eaglewings said:

Copy that. Been monitoring closely on a daily bases since launch of new series.

Well, not only the prices will drop if you wait a bit more, but you'll have next gen released as well which seem to be promising quite a step in performance.

[Svsmokey]

...as space heaters

[BitMaster]

I wish Apple would enter the GPU market 

[SkateZilla]

3 hours ago, Svsmokey said:

...as space heaters

the RTX4080 Maybe,

The RX7950 is looking really good.

[Eaglewings]

...as space heaters

Yeah new series with some trade off.
If rumours are true about watt spec on those gpu, I dealing with heat generated in hot humid conditions isn't going to be fun.
High Watts draw on the gpu and higher electricity cost from cooling the gaming environment.
Wondering if this is same prediction on next Amd card. They seems more energy efficient.

[LucShep]

Yeah, I think that top level (highest tier) GPUs will become space heaters.
But the mid/high range (such as RTX4070 and RX7700XT) should still be totally reasonable there, push same (likely better) performance than the current best GPUs, and with less power consumption.

 

[Eaglewings]

Yeah, I think that top level (highest tier) GPUs will become space heaters.
But the mid/high range (such as RTX4070 and RX7700XT) should still be totally reasonable there, push same (likely better) performance than the current best GPUs, and with less power consumption.

 

I have no problem settling for the mid/high range cards and hope the new dcs graphic engine and mulitcore implementation come soon enough to help some.

[Lurker]

I wouldn't expect miracles in VR with the card you picked out. The performance is simply not there in DCS World. 

[DeltaMike]

On 4/4/2022 at 11:09 AM, Svsmokey said:

...as space heaters

Don't knock it.  When my gas heater went out, I heated by RV with a 4xR9-290X mining rig one November in Albuquerque and made money doing it.  

[FR4GGL3]

Might work in Albuquerque, but if you have the "pleasure" to live in Germany (as I do), you would think twice. I think we have the highest price on electric energy in the whole EU. I wouldn't be surprised if we pay the highest electric bills in the whole world. So no, heating with a mining rig won't allow you to make money.

 

I actually had a look. The bermudas have to pay more than we have to pay So I guess we will see some rising prices - we can't be the number 2 in the world on this one. No way!

 

Back to topic:

yes, there are rumours about the upcoming nVidia GPUs. We will see what will be the truth. There are chances that this high Wattage numbers could be the spikes. There are pretty insane spikes on the ampere cards too, but they don't have to write that on the box as the current ATX Standard doesn't ask for that. The upcoming ATX Standards force them to tell people such spike Wattage. Even the PSUs must clearly state how high they can handle Power Spikes. I think this is a good thing as I had several PSUs that couldn't handle my GPUs in the past. And that have been brands that are well known and said to be very good - if not "the best"...

[BitMaster]

Nvidia and AMD, for my understanding, design their GPU's to fit the DataCentre needs, there, the actual wattage doesn't count as long as the output justifies it. The same goes for Server CPUs. They need more and more overall wattage, despite the decline in Nanometer and better production tweaks etc.. The chips are designed for most potent customer that gives them the biggest profit. As a spin off, we get the GPU as a "Gaming" GPU at unbelievable prices, too high power consumption and thus heat dumped out ( guys, there is a limit of how much heat you can dump into a case and get it out again without server grade noise and fans ! ).

I can understand the overall wattage rises with core count on CPU's. It doesn't even affect us much as we only use a few cores in most games, we don't compile kernels across a 128 core dual Epyc board and suck in 280w  per socket...over the motherboard. We use 50-80 Watts in DCS roughly with modern CPU's. That is not the issue. 

The elephant callled 3090ti and alikes comes into the room and just kills all your energy/heat calculation, case and fan layout etc... 

I run a watercooled system and I plan to keep it this way and if I upgrade my GPU I will also try to watercool if possible. I really don't wanna think about the issue of a mid-tier midi-size budget tower ( you gotta safe cash to get the 3090ti or 4xxx, reality here ), hopefully a not too shabby PSU and then you dump a constant 300-400w heat from the GPU alone into that case. If you aircool your CPU, add another 50w. I really dont think that is the way it should go. This is really borderline. I assume most of those cards will be watercooled or 4-slot size and a sticker saying "you need a MF-BIG case and a LOT OF FANS bro !"

I really think 250-300w max should be the limit for a GPU in a gaming rig. GPU 250w + CPU 50W air cooled in a mid size tower is already a task. Add another 200w and it gets very expensive or unreliable.

Fast-Cheap-Reliable   Pick any TWO !

 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by BitMaster

[Eaglewings]

Fellows , I made a move on Evga 3070 last week with price at $649.99 pre tax. Delivery was planned for next week. Saw the same gpu down a little more and cancelled the order. Decided to a give a few more weeks and hope some world trend would not turn things around.

I could spend about the same amount ($699.99) for Asus barebone setup with the following list parts:

• ASUS TUF Gaming GT301 Tempered Glass ATX Mid-Tower Computer Case - Black
• ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti V2 Mini LHR Overclocked Dual-Fan 8GB GDDR6 PCIe 4.0 Graphics Card
• ASUS TUF Gaming 650 Watt 80 Plus Bronze ATX Non-Modular Power Supply
• ASUS B550-F ROG Strix Gaming AMD AM4 ATX.                       

 The above seems to provide a good upgrade path for a rx 5600x cpu from my present i5 7600k. This I reckon can keep going before the Nividia 4000 series and amd 7000 series launches(hoping one can get those when they come out)