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Rockets and Guns. How do you hit things?


Digitalvole
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Any tips would be greatly appreciated as I’m really struggling to hit anything.

I want to say “surely they’re more accurate in real life!” But it’s most likely me doing it wrong.

Rockets for example, they seem to have a mind of their own. I’ve set range to auto and I can get the “I” symbol over the cross, pull the trigger and the rockets will end up somewhere, just not where I’d thought it’d be. Long, short, wide anywhere except where I want them!

And I’m just as hopeless with the gun, if not worse!

 

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The gun can be tricky. Of course, it needs to be set up correctly - boresighted in a cold start, and set to auto ranging is usually the best solution. I assume you're using the HMD for targeting? In which case, it's just a matter of correcting for the projectile's lead. If you're doing a reasonable forward speed then of course the hits will land behind where the crosshair is pointing, you need to adjust for that. The best thing to do is fire a very short burst to see where they're landing, and then adjust appropriately.

As for rockets, I think it's also a case of being set up correctly and having the appropriate acquisition source depending on whether you're aiming yourself as pilot, or using a target set by George. Also, the I beam doesn't need to be 'over' the cross - it only provides left/right indications, so the vertical axis doesn't matter. I suggest Casmo's videos on rocket use.

 

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Thanks LooseSeal, it’s just a matter of “git gud” I suppose. I’ve watched that video 3 times already, but a forth time can’t hurt 🙂

I usually shoot the gun looking out the side, is this a bad idea? I try to adjust my shots but the bullets seem to impact in unexpected places every time. I just need to practice practice practice by the sounds of it. 😁


Edited by Digitalvole
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I am getting quite good with the gun with the Apache ... but the rockets are useless in my book. The ole vertical bar chasing while trying to keep your cross on the target with TrackIr is just plain ridiculous. I am very dangerous with the Huey and the Hind with rockets, but they are paperweight with the Apache. I gave up on the rockets. It is now Hellfire and Gun only.

I guess experience differs from people to people though...

 

 


Edited by Frag
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21 minutes ago, Frag said:

I am getting quite good with the gun with the Apache ... but the rockets are useless in my book. The ole vertical bar chasing while trying to keep your cross on the target with TrackIr is just plain ridiculous. I am very dangerous with the Huey and the Hind with rockets, but they are paperweight with the Apache. I gave up on the rockets. It is now Hellfire and Gun only.

I guess experience differs from people to people though...

I have no issues with either. To fire rockets you have to be trimmed  so the I beam gets centered with your sight and then let them have it. I've killed about a million trains already. 🙂 They seem quite easy to me. For guns make sure to bore-sight it and the gun isn't the most accurate anyways so you may have to compensate a little with your aiming.

19 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Apache has a rather unique way of shooting rockets, if you're used to the way other airframes do it, Apache ones are very hard to use. It might take more practice than usual, since you also need to unlearn the old habits.

No they are EASY! Maybe there is a bug because they are very easy on my PC but some like you seem to be having major issues.

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54 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

I usually shoot the gun looking out the side, is this a bad idea? I try to adjust my shots but the bullets seem to impact in unexpected places every time. 

If you're firing the gun to the left or the right of the aircraft while flying forward then you do need to adjust your aim slightly aft of the target as the rounds already have some forward inertia as they leave the gun. More forward speed means + more angle off your direction of flight means you need to compensate more.

25 minutes ago, Frag said:

I am getting quite good with the gun with the Apache ... but the rockets are useless in my book. The ole vertical bar chasing while trying to keep your cross on the target with TrackIr is just plain ridiculous. I am very dangerous with the Huey and the Hind with rockets, but they are paperweight with the Apache. I gave up on the rockets. It is now Hellfire and Gun only.

I guess experience differs from people to people though...

I fly almost exclusively in VR, and appreciate there are differences between that and using TrackIR. What helped me though was to do my best to ignore the I-Beam as much as possible and keep focussed on the target. At first I found myself "chasing" the I-Beam with my head, then realising what I was doing before doing it wrong again and again and again.

Now I try to keep my LOS on the target and just try to be aware of which side the I-Beam is on. I then fly the helicopter in the other direction until it I-Beam crosses my LOS. It's totally counter-intuitive, and your brain tries to force you to move your view to get them to line up. You just need to get over that and force yourself to do it the other way, rather like flying with the PNVS and trying to ignore the wrong visual cues your other eye might give you.

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Will hijack this thread to ask a related question:

 

In the Manual: pg 275: How do you select "Laser, Navigation..." on the  page?  I know that highlighting the MANRNG button B6 and entering A in the KBU sets to AUTO, but how to change to LASER or NAVIGATION?  Pretty much it seems that when I have a target lased in the TADS, the gun is pretty accurate with no other settings, so I assumed it was automatic. Not sure how to make the settings described in the Manual..

image.png

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10 minutes ago, frostycab said:

Now I try to keep my LOS on the target and just try to be aware of which side the I-Beam is on. I then fly the helicopter in the other direction until it I-Beam crosses my LOS. It's totally counter-intuitive, and your brain tries to force you to move your view to get them to line up. You just need to get over that and force yourself to do it the other way, rather like flying with the PNVS and trying to ignore the wrong visual cues your other eye might give you.

Exactly! I do understand what they tried to achieve here, but like you, I found that thing super counter intuitive. But to be honest, I think that the biggest issue is the ole TrackIr thing. TrackIr is not super precise for very small adjustment while looking straight forward. There is a center dead zone thing.

I have an Oculus as well. I will try it out in VR to see if it is easier to get.

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2 hours ago, Recluse said:

Will hijack this thread to ask a related question:

 

In the Manual: pg 275: How do you select "Laser, Navigation..." on the  page?  I know that highlighting the MANRNG button B6 and entering A in the KBU sets to AUTO, but how to change to LASER or NAVIGATION?  Pretty much it seems that when I have a target lased in the TADS, the gun is pretty accurate with no other settings, so I assumed it was automatic. Not sure how to make the settings described in the Manual..

 

When CPG is firing a gun, sighting through TADS, he can lase the target for accurate range before firing. You cannot do this as a pilot.

For the OP, I think the problem is not properly boresighted IHADSS.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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3 hours ago, Recluse said:

In the Manual: pg 275: How do you select "Laser, Navigation..." on the  page? 

 

Short answer: It's done by setting the appropriate ACQ source. 

*I think* that from the CPG seat Laser would apply when using the TADS as your sight AND firing the laser. Navigation would be ACQ - ?00 for a TSD point. AUTO and Manual apply when aiming the gun using the HMD.

*I think...*

3 hours ago, Frag said:

Exactly! I do understand what they tried to achieve here, but like you, I found that thing super counter intuitive. But to be honest, I think that the biggest issue is the ole TrackIr thing. TrackIr is not super precise for very small adjustment while looking straight forward. There is a center dead zone thing.

I have an Oculus as well. I will try it out in VR to see if it is easier to get.

I've got both, tried both. I just prefer VR. It doesn't help much in terms of keeping your LOS on the target. Maybe I need medical attention or something, but when trying to make adjustments for just a few pixels left or right it's as though the muscles in my neck all lock up and I find my view juddering slightly as I try to get the fine control I need.

It's a bit like trying to move your eyes slowly, in that it just can't be done. You always end up snapping a bit too far one way and then snapping back to correct.


Edited by frostycab
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3 hours ago, Recluse said:

In the Manual: pg 275: How do you select "Laser, Navigation..." on the  page?  I know that highlighting the MANRNG button B6 and entering A in the KBU sets to AUTO, but how to change to LASER or NAVIGATION?  Pretty much it seems that when I have a target lased in the TADS, the gun is pretty accurate with no other settings, so I assumed it was automatic. Not sure how to make the settings described in the Manual..

You're misinterpreting what the manual is telling you to do. Figures within the manual generally follow the text that it applies to; in this case the previous step telling you to verify or select the gun settings, with the WPN page in GUN format showing where to set these.  The next steps to arm and select a range source aren't on the WPN page; this engagement sequence is simply the steps to employ the gun using the TADS, but it assumes that you've read the preceding sections that describe how to arm the aircraft, select acquisition sources, etc.

Regarding the range source, you don't select a range source from a menu or list, you take the necessary steps to utilize the appropriate range source.
To use a Manual or Auto range, use MANRANG> data entry button on the WPN page.
To use a Nav range, select a point from the TSD COORD page or use the TSD CAQ function to select one.
To use a Laser range, simply lase the target.

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15 minutes ago, frostycab said:

Short answer: It's done by setting the appropriate ACQ source. 

*I think* that from the CPG seat Laser would apply when using the TADS as your sight AND firing the laser. Navigation would be ACQ - ?00 for a TSD point. AUTO and Manual apply when aiming the gun using the HMD.

*I think...*

 

 

36 minutes ago, PlainSight said:

When CPG is firing a gun, sighting through TADS, he can lase the target for accurate range before firing. You cannot do this as a pilot.

For the OP, I think the problem is not properly boresighted IHADSS.

 

Right, I get that. What I was wondering about was the manual SEEMED to suggest there was a specific setting to make/verify  similar to setting the Ranging to AUTO using the A in the keyboard unit.

I almost always get good results in the CP/G seat when I have a TADS target lased and attack with Gun (without making any other settings) and when I use a Point as the ACQ source, I usually end up fine tuning with TADS and lasing anyway. Just wondering if there were any other Keyboard entries to adjust this similar to the "A" for Auto based on what the Manual said, especially since it says Range SOURCE to NAVIGATION if ACQ is set to POINT which suggested to me that the RANGE source is set differently from the ACQ source.


Edited by Recluse
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3 minutes ago, Recluse said:

 

Right, I get that. What I was wondering about was the manual SEEMED to suggest there was a specific setting to make/verify  similar to setting the Ranging to AUTO using the A in the keyboard unit.

I almost always get good results in the CP/G seat when I have a TADS target lased and attack with Gun (without making any other settings) and when I use a Point as the ACQ source, I usually end up fine tuning with TADS and lasing anyway. Just wondering if there were any other Keyboard entries to adjust this similar to the "A" for Auto based on what the Manual said, especially since it says Range SOURCE to NAVIGATION if ACQ is set to POINT which indicated to me that the RANGE source is set differently from the ACQ source..

This could be referring to the range that's displayed to the left of the Field Of Regard display, which I think shows "NX.X" when you have a point set as your ACQ. Could well be wrong about this, as it's late and I need to sleep soon. 😛

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Just now, frostycab said:

This could be referring to the range that's displayed to the left of the Field Of Regard display, which I think shows "NX.X" when you have a point set as your ACQ. Could well be wrong about this, as it's late and I need to sleep soon. 😛

Could be!  Verification vs. Setting in the case of NAVIGATION or LASER..It is sort of a moot point as it all seems to work fine but I thought I was missing some other RANGE SOURCE setting. Going through the COLD STARTS, I find lots of setting on pages I otherwise wouldn't ever think to look for 🙂

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12 hours ago, Frag said:

Guys I found a good trick tonight to help those, who liked me, cannot hit a 100 acres oat field with a rocket.

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/297705-white-line-rocket-trick-found-an-awesome-way-to-use-rockets-in-ccip-like-the-huey-and-hind/#comment-4936801

 

Sounds like a neat way to do it. Hopefully it works well in VR, I have R eye only IHADDS so the whole thing is shifted a bit off center to the right including the point of impact.  Right now I just approach the target and use the rudder to line it up, horizontally it works well but vertical accuracy has been a toss up even with auto setting. 

 

Edit: tested it recently.  Works pretty well with diving attack, but I have to focus on the right circular edge of the boresight alignment scope rather than the white line as vertical aiming point.  This is with R eye IHADDS in VR and my custom cockpit view which is slighter higher and further back than default, YMMV.  This is more accurate than trying to spam rudder input at low speed which can sometimes cause you to spin around if the maneuver is too aggressive.


Edited by Supmua

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