First ME Impressions

[MBot]

Yesterday I had my first look at the new mission editor. Of course I can't comment too detailed yet, but my first impression was very good. The editor has a nice layout and is easy to use. The management of triggers is well done aswell (altough still a bit limited for the moment). I also like the new military unit icons.

 

The first test missions I did worked great. I extracted various sound files from Gunship! and combined them to a small database of radio messages. I could build a mission where some M1 would give a SPOTREP once closing to the enemy and request an artillery strike. Artillery would confirm the fire mission and then open fire. Already now, with a good base of sounds it is possible to create some nice battlefield atmosphere.

 

What I identified as the most limiting factor for the moment regarding ground ops is the lack of hold waypoints. Currently units will pass trough their waypoints without pause, which makes it difficult to orchestrate ground operations. Changing of battlepositions or retreats are not doable at the moment (unless the units is initialy deactivated). A hold waypoint, where a unit would wait a specified amount of time when reaching a waypoint is therefore what I currently look forward most. Combined with a 'continue trigger', where units would hold at a specific point until triggered to go on, this will greatly enhance ground battles.

 

Of course there are various triggers and events that I think are still needed. Black Shark offers a good, limitted start. But I am confident that the ME will continue to grow and finaly will include all the bells and whistles.

 

I also had the impression that the map elevation resolution of the ME is not high enough to allow for precise placing of ground units. I did not expect it to be bigger, but I think it would be something to think about for the future. I had the impression that intelligent placement of ground forces (such as a battalion commander would) is difficult with the current map. Of course for detail placement of individual units, a 3d view would be nice for the future.

 

I hope that ED in the future will include a battle position static object for armored vehicles. It is actually a very simple object and should be a quick job for a expierienced modeler. You can see a old and very crude try from me in the center of that screenshot:

 

 

 

 

As a conclusion I have to say that the ME is very pleasant. It is still a bit limitted in various regards, especially amount of triggers or a script language, but I see that a very good fundation has been laid. I am looking forward very much to the further developments of the ME.

[jimiC]

its lacking some pretty important elements unless theyre hidden and i cant find them (entirely possible)

 

- waypoint triggers. ie: one group can go multiple ways based on an event/rule/flag/random variable, group % casualties etc.

- mission end triggers (mission ends and goes to bebrief if x happens)

- more tactical commands on the waypoint interface. (recon, hold, patrol, assault, reverse)

- ability to put clients into groups

 

thats just off the top of my head

[mckee14]

in one of my first posts i wrote almost the same - "hold" or "deactivate" triggers/waypoints, and some "reactivate" triggers.

 

in the meantime i think it would be really sweet to have an additional "if_inside_FieldOfView" trigger :) :)

 

different waypoints based on a trigger makes only limited sense imho. either you tell them what to do, or the units have to decide (like you only set a start and an end point, and they go there like they want and the environment allows). as a workaround, you can have 3 groups with different waypoints and only activate one of them by trigger or by chance %.

 

mission end triggers? noooo, i want to return to the base and land that (damaged and almost-shot-to-pieces) baby :)

 

clients in groups would be nice, but it's not a big think like it is right now. just copy/paste the way- and targetpoints from one flight to all the others...

[Vati]

While lack of basic triggers and waypoint related problems have been mentioned, I will add that I still miss the Flanker 1.x editor's feature where you could actually see where you had placed the unit on the map. It's frustrating to spend 2h of entering/exiting mission, just to place few units on some specific place.

 

For me ME is a great disappointment as it is basically the same in function as previous incarnations. Way to much time is spend on getting around the limits of the ME instead of focusing on the mission.

[jimiC]

in one of my first posts i wrote almost the same - "hold" or "deactivate" triggers/waypoints, and some "reactivate" triggers.

 

in the meantime i think it would be really sweet to have an additional "if_inside_FieldOfView" trigger :) :)

 

different waypoints based on a trigger makes only limited sense imho. either you tell them what to do, or the units have to decide (like you only set a start and an end point, and they go there like they want and the environment allows). as a workaround, you can have 3 groups with different waypoints and only activate one of them by trigger or by chance %.

 

mission end triggers? noooo, i want to return to the base and land that (damaged and almost-shot-to-pieces) baby :)

 

clients in groups would be nice, but it's not a big think like it is right now. just copy/paste the way- and targetpoints from one flight to all the others...

 

u can still rtb ur shot up chopper with mission end triggers :)

 

mission end if { target x destroyed, player is in zone y.}; (hypothetical mission end statement)

[mckee14]

@vati: you can set one shark as client and save the mission, and open the multiplayer while you are still in the editor. this way you can check the units placement. if you see you have to correct something, change it in the ME (alt+tab), save the mission, reload it in MP. its way faster than always load the mission from the editor, as the engine is already preloaded in the MP section. still, a satellite view would be VERY welcome for missionbuilding :)

 

@jimiC: you're right! but then, u could also just use the text message trigger for that - if it would work in MP... but they're on it (at least it's what ED said)...

[Vati]

mckee14, thx for the tip :)

[crazyeddie]

Satellite view for object placement, it's almost impossible to put anything in the right place without it, you just have to try and try again and placing 1 object correctly takes forever, in the end I gave up.

 

After Lomac I was really surprised it was not included.

[EvilBivol-1]

As you understand, ED is hard at work on expanding the new ME. Already some new triggers are being coded/implemented, including unit deactivation. ED has also said they will attempt to return the Satellite View into the editor. In the longer term, of course "live" 3D plug-in is the goal for unit placement and preview. Some of the more advanced AI commands, such as route commands, are also planned, but will only become possible as AI routines are advanced at the same time, which is also something ED is currently working on.

 

Something I didn't see mention much on the forum, but I think can be helpful in creating missions is the new Template function.

 

In general, as Wags has described earlier, the current ME is really a foundation for further expansion. It's main advantage, by far, is that it's completely recoded and much more open and flexible for ED and potentially others to develop further, which is in full swing now.

[jimiC]

thats good news. the template feature has a lot of potential i agree although it needs to be able to template routes and static objects too (think thats the plan already mentioned anyway isnt it?)

[mckee14]

indeed, would be great to generate whole "bases" with different static objects and save them as templates!

[Cyclic]

Can anyone elaborate on the problems faced in the editor where Ground Units in some cases refure to move down the set WP assignmnet. I do remember an issue where the distance a ground unit could move had issues. I Built a mission the other night and to my dismay found the ground units refused to move. They seemed to have uisees with crossing bridges or that is what it seemed.