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USMC AESA Legacy Hornets in DCS


wilbur81

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I'm highly skeptical that this article is even accurate... but IF it is, and the USMC really does ever upgrade some of its Legacy's to the AESA and 120D's, my goodness!

This would be the Hornet to simulate in DCS. "Shut your mouth, fat, slow, ugly Super Hornets!"

Let the Legacy live! One can dream... 🙂

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Looks like the flying Ipad didn't quite pan out the way they wanted. 🙂 10k flight hours is a lot, though, I wonder how the airframes would hold up. The Tomcats were nearly falling apart by the end of their service life.

We're quite unlikely to get this in DCS, though. AESA radars are sensitive tech, and I'm pretty sure we won't get any public manuals on how to use one for quite a while. 

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3 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

We're quite unlikely to get this in DCS, though. AESA radars are sensitive tech, and I'm pretty sure we won't get any public manuals on how to use one for quite a while. 

I'm sure you're quite right. 


Edited by wilbur81

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There isn't a single airborne AESA radar simulated in DCS at the moment, and the closest to an airborne non-mech radar in the entire game in the AI MiG-31. It'd be awesome someday, but I imagine a whole lot of things would need to change under the hood the add that capability. 

Besides, it's not even a thing that we know is happening for sure, and it certainly isn't happening within the time scale of the DCS Hornet. I'd rather have a Super Hornet anyway, even an early one that shares most of its software with the current Charlie Hornet.

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9 hours ago, Bunny Clark said:

I'd rather have a Super Hornet anyway...

I understand... a lot of guys hit that point in life where they have to trade in their sporty car for the minivan. 🙂

To each their own...

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I hope Super Hornet can happen someday in DCS, once Top Gun 2 comes out, it will be a big boost for that particular aircraft. I have fond memories of an ancient Super Hornet sim that was great for its time, but completely stopped working on Windows Vista. The Superbug would be fun to fly, too, even a mid-2000s early variant (amusingly enough, it was probably the most advanced aircraft in the world at the time that ancient sim came out 🙂 ).

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On 4/10/2022 at 5:56 AM, Bunny Clark said:

There isn't a single airborne AESA radar simulated in DCS at the moment, and the closest to an airborne non-mech radar in the entire game in the AI MiG-31.

And in DCS there's absolutely nothing special about it compared to any other RADAR, it's modelled in exactly the same way, with very little fidelity.

On 4/10/2022 at 5:56 AM, Bunny Clark said:

I'd rather have a Super Hornet anyway, even an early one that shares most of its software with the current Charlie Hornet.

Agreed.


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The Super Hornet DEFINTELY carries more gas and has an amazing radar.

The Legacy Hornet is faster, has better acceleration, more maneuverable (and more unstable, which equals = "More fun"), has a better roll rate, is better looking, is better looking, and is also better looking. 

So, a Legacy Hornet with an AESA radar and the 120D would be the perfect version in DCS for me, since "more gas" means little to me in our virtual environment. 👍

 

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5 hours ago, wilbur81 said:

The Super Hornet DEFINTELY carries more gas and has an amazing radar.

The Legacy Hornet is faster, has better acceleration, more maneuverable (and more unstable, which equals = "More fun"), has a better roll rate, is better looking, is better looking, and is also better looking. 

So, a Legacy Hornet with an AESA radar and the 120D would be the perfect version in DCS for me, since "more gas" means little to me in our virtual environment. 👍

The Super Hornet has a higher TWR and better pitch authority, and actually has less longitudinal static stability than the Legacy Hornet - it's just better controlled with the DFCS. The only major maneuverability hit the Super Hornet took is role rate. The Super Hornet is also draggier, though the 30%+ increased thrust from the new engines more than make up for that. 

I'd happily take a Hornet with a higher TWR, just as good maneuverability, more gas, a better radar, two more hardpoints, a fourth screen, and new MFDs 😀 

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40 minutes ago, wilbur81 said:

True...but all that drag... Pros and cons. 🙂 

The fighter pilot answer to anything is always "it depends." 🤪

The Blue Angles Transition episode of the Fighter Pilot Podcast has some really interesting discussion of Legacy Hornet vs Super Hornet maneuverability with someone who spent a year studying exactly that.

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17 hours ago, Bunny Clark said:

The fighter pilot answer to anything is always "it depends." 🤪

The Blue Angles Transition episode of the Fighter Pilot Podcast has some really interesting discussion of Legacy Hornet vs Super Hornet maneuverability with someone who spent a year studying exactly that.

Indeed. 🙂 I have listened to the FPP episode on the transition for the Blues. Really good stuff. I miss Sunshine. Omega Tau's Markus also has a really good discussion about the Hornets and differences b/w Super and Legacy. 

Some highlights from Guido for the Super:

More thrust, gas, and FCS pitch allowances:

"Lowlights" from Guido for the Super:

Super Hornet is just heavier on the controls
more FCS damping built in making it less sensitive/touchy/snappy when compared to the Legacy
roll rate slower
Super flies like a more draggy airplane (i.e. - don't need speed brakes on the back side of a loop because of the extra drag).

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

USMC C+ Hornet's final number will be less than a dozen, the orders have been repeatedly cut over the years, 1 has already been lost to a crash, another had a engine failure that destroyed most of the aft section and is also likely a loss.

Cecil Field is ahead of schedule converting and extending the airframe life, but USMC already said they are cutting the order short to make room for F-35s.

The Sqn will be reduced to training for transition to F-35 style workflow, no C+ Units will be deployed w/ the Fleet.


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2 минуты назад, amalahama сказал:

I just want a F/A-18C++ Object Oriented Hornet

It's supposed to be multi paradigm rather than object oriented exclusively 🙂

I think it's safe to say that F-4J was purely object oriented.

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On 4/12/2022 at 8:17 AM, wilbur81 said:

Indeed. 🙂 I have listened to the FPP episode on the transition for the Blues. Really good stuff. I miss Sunshine. Omega Tau's Markus also has a really good discussion about the Hornets and differences b/w Super and Legacy. 

Some highlights from Guido for the Super:

More thrust, gas, and FCS pitch allowances:

"Lowlights" from Guido for the Super:

Super Hornet is just heavier on the controls
more FCS damping built in making it less sensitive/touchy/snappy when compared to the Legacy
roll rate slower
Super flies like a more draggy airplane (i.e. - don't need speed brakes on the back side of a loop because of the extra drag).

 

 

The Super Hornet is not draggy, it has a lot of power in both of those engines. It is a very sleek aerodynamic cross section. It can beat a Hornet in acceleration. It has the same engines as an F22. Those engines are very good in other airframes such as SU35S, Gripen, Rafale and SU60 fly better with them. 

[sIGPIC]2011subsRADM.jpg

[/sIGPIC]

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5 hours ago, SUBS17 said:

The Super Hornet is not draggy, it has a lot of power in both of those engines. It is a very sleek aerodynamic cross section. It can beat a Hornet in acceleration. It has the same engines as an F22. Those engines are very good in other airframes such as SU35S, Gripen, Rafale and SU60 fly better with them. 

You're correct that the Super Hornet has a better TWR than the Legacy Hornet and is no slouch in acceleration. 

But I'm not sure where you're coming from with the engines. The F-22 uses the P&W F119, while the Super Hornet has the GE F414 (a derivation of the F404 in the Legacy Hornet). And the Su-35 certainly doesn't use the same engines as the F-22...

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16 hours ago, BarTzi said:

Are you not counting the canted pylons? 

Although it seems that it is pointing canted the airflow is outwards following an AGILE AERODYNAMIC PROFILE. It adds stability but does not negate performance in any way shape or form. Where I come from we would not direct them that way but it is unique in this History to have an aircraft with that.

[sIGPIC]2011subsRADM.jpg

[/sIGPIC]

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17 hours ago, Bunny Clark said:

You're correct that the Super Hornet has a better TWR than the Legacy Hornet and is no slouch in acceleration. 

But I'm not sure where you're coming from with the engines. The F-22 uses the P&W F119, while the Super Hornet has the GE F414 (a derivation of the F404 in the Legacy Hornet). And the Su-35 certainly doesn't use the same engines as the F-22...

The Super Hornet engines can fit into an SU35 and give it safer performance in HIGH ALPHA. It is a very, very good powerplant. Those aircraft that I mentioned have been tested in the past with the same engines. Very little modification is required and performance is extremely good. The Mig29 OVT has Super Hornet engines which is why it handles so well in HIGH ALPHA. All videos of SU35S and SU57/SU60 doing a pirouette all have Super Hornet Engines. In many engines in such extreme maneuver's the engines would flame out under such conditions. The BY-PASS on the Super Hornet Turbo fan are what makes it safer in HIGH ALPHA CONDITIONS. I highly recommend Sukhoi, Dassault, Saab and Mikoyan test their aircraft with that powerplant. It makes it safer for pilots particularly where dogfights are concerned and loss of energy can happen. It is a dangerous area the low speed and a good powerplant can get you out of trouble if a pilot should wind up in that situation.    

[sIGPIC]2011subsRADM.jpg

[/sIGPIC]

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14 hours ago, SUBS17 said:

Although it seems that it is pointing canted the airflow is outwards following an AGILE AERODYNAMIC PROFILE. It adds stability but does not negate performance in any way shape or form. Where I come from we would not direct them that way but it is unique in this History to have an aircraft with that.

They add more drag (than a standard, non canted configuration). AFAIK drag has an impact on performance. Do you know why those pylons are canted?


Edited by BarTzi
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