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BETTER 3d in VR (greater depth) !!!


pastranario3

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9 hours ago, feralcat said:

@Supmua What profile are you using for MSFS?  Are you using the global one and it just works on everything?

 

Global one. 

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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2 hours ago, winghunter said:

One more thing just crossed my mind.

Since this mod changes a stereo texture setting, what if it only affects normal maps ? That would explain why there is no actual geometry change visible. Because normal maps create a depth effect without changing geometry. Trees and ground textures have normal maps, as well as some buildings.  Which would explain why this can be seen flying low over scenery.

grafik.png

 

If you dont know what these do, here is a good example to get your eyes trained on the normal map effect. Once you have seen this you will notice normal maps in most modern games.

 

 

Hmm yeah that’s another possibility.  An ideal testing for me would me 2 identical PC setups with default vs modified profile.  If no difference then it points to the corrupted original profile that some might have, because I don’t think my eyes are fooling me. I play daily and have had lots of VR headsets, so it’s not like I haven’t played in a long time and then just noticed the changes.


Edited by Supmua
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PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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2 hours ago, winghunter said:

One more thing just crossed my mind.

Since this mod changes a stereo texture setting, what if it only affects normal maps ? That would explain why there is no actual geometry change visible. Because normal maps create a depth effect without changing geometry. Trees and ground textures have normal maps, as well as some buildings.  Which would explain why this can be seen flying low over scenery.

grafik.png

 

If you dont know what these do, here is a good example to get your eyes trained on the normal map effect. Once you have seen this you will notice normal maps in most modern games.

 

 

 

As we had this very same discussion on the forum of the other sim and I see it's still going here and people are still investing time in investigating and theorizing, I'll just leave this here as well as food for thought:
 

The "stereo" section of the nVidia profile was introduced many years ago, before current VR, and was meant to apply to monitors, either by causing anaglyph rendering:
https://3dvision-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/burnout-paradise-anaglyph.jpg

Or nVidia's proprietary 3D Vision mode for their shuttered glasses which also required a custom monitor panel (or so I understand as I never got in to that tech):
https://techreport.com/r.x/geforce-3d-vision/stereo-shot.jpg

Ergo: any changes it introduces to the game's rendering should be immediately visible in normal screen mode, as they added these features long before VR was around and their purpose was to make changes to the rendering process of the game at the GPU driver level - all of which occurs before it is transferred to the HMD or your monitor. Therefore you do not need a VR headset to see the effects rendered, regardless if they look like a mess as in the screenshots above or if they are subtle and only visible when the scene is in motion they should absolutely be visible in 2D/screen/pancake mode as well. After all that's their intended medium and that's what happens when you modify rendering settings at the driver level. Furthermore, AFAIK they are not a post-processing effect either, so they should absolutely be capturable in simple screenshots (but even if they were there are tools to capture screenshots with post-processing effects in them as well [for example, the openvr_api.dll mod by fholger has a screenshot function which captures the final result, post processing included, right before it is outputted to your HMD]).

Example: you can completely disable anisotropic filtering and drop the quality of your texture filtering to the lowest possible and it will be immediately visible both on screen and in the image sent to your HMD because it is done at the GPU driver level, the exact same thing applies to any effect the settings from the stereo section would trigger.

Happy hunting!

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1 hour ago, Supmua said:

Hmm yeah that’s another possibility.  An ideal testing for me would me 2 identical PC setups with default vs modified profile.  If no difference then it points to the corrupted original profile that some might have, because I don’t think my eyes are fooling me. I play daily and have had lots of VR headsets, so it’s not like I haven’t played in a long time and then just noticed the changes.

 

 

Same here, several hours every day. I don't buy the corrupt profile either. For some this works for others it does not. I think in some cases the profile is not done properly, like in my case the first time I tried it. In other cases yeah it just does not work for them for whatever reason. But there also have been a few both here and on the other forum where it does work. Hmm sounds like a lot of other tweaks one can do for VR really. Not sure why some are so bent on trying to prove we are not seeing, what we are seeing. Leave it be and let those that are enjoying it enjoy it. Anyone is free to try. As with any tweaks ymmv.


Edited by dburne

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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5 minutes ago, dburne said:

Not sure why some are so bent on trying to prove we are not seeing, what we are seeing. Leave it be and let those that are enjoying it enjoy it. Anyone is free to try.

For me it's the other way around, i like to know why i don't see the things you see.
Just like you i entered and checked the changes to the profile more then once but without a result.
As far as i can tell (reading here and bit on other forums), it does not seem to work on Oculus headsets.

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Win11 Pro 64-bit, Ryzen 5800X3D, Corsair H115i, Gigabyte X570S UD, EVGA 3080Ti XC3 Ultra 12GB, 64 GB DDR4 G.Skill 3600. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base, MFG Crosswind combat pedals, TrackIR4, Rift-S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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I tried and for the life of me unable to see if it is working or not. I figured it would be night and day but IDK looks the same to me. and I followed the video to the T I even Downloaded the file someone uploaded here..

Would of loved it, if it worked for me. I am a big fan of 3D..


Edited by The_Nephilim
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ASRock Z590 Phantom Gaming 4/AC / Intel i7 10700K @ 5.1Ghz / Noctua DHS-14 Heatsinkw/Fan /  Samsung 970plus m.2 1TB  /  eVGA FTW3 2080Ti /  RipJaws - 64GB RAM @3200  /  SoundBlaster Z  / Reverb G2 VR /  ThrustMaster HOTAS Cougar & MFD's / Buttkicker Gamer 2

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21 minutes ago, freehand said:

Thank you pastranario3:

For me using a G1 with openXR difference is night and day.

People you really must try this .

 

:thumbup:

Always great to see these comments!

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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5 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

:thumbup:

Always great to see these comments!

When I read your comments I just had to give a go as you are a die hard anti mod kind a guy 😆

Its a free upgrade as far as I am concerned.


Edited by freehand
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1 hour ago, Lange_666 said:

For me it's the other way around, i like to know why i don't see the things you see.
Just like you i entered and checked the changes to the profile more then once but without a result.
As far as i can tell (reading here and bit on other forums), it does not seem to work on Oculus headsets.

Do you already have good 3D effects with your oculus?  If you do then it’s all good. I can check with the Quest 2 if time permits and if I can snatch it away from my kids. 

3 minutes ago, freehand said:

When I read your comments I just had to give a go as you are a die hard anti mod kind a guy 😆

This 🙂

10 minutes ago, freehand said:

The only way I can describe it is like Focus stacking in photography every thing just pops.  

In photography with a good post processing technique (and gear) you can make a photo really pop with 3D-like effect. 

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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51 minutes ago, freehand said:

When I read your comments I just had to give a go as you are a die hard anti mod kind a guy 😆

Its a free upgrade as far as I am concerned.

 

 

Yep you are correct, I prefer no mods in my games. I gave the Open XR Mod for DCS a try and just did not see enough of an improvement on my end along with a little less image clarity, so I reverted back to no Mods for DCS. If he gets eye tracking with foveated rendering working with the Aero and DCS I will likely give it another try, though I would much rather ED provide native support for Open XR myself. I really do loathe running a Mod.

I guess we kinda sorta get a little FFR through using the DCS VR Mask size, I do use that as it's native to DCS.


Edited by dburne

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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53 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Do you already have good 3D effects with your oculus?  If you do then it’s all good. I can check with the Quest 2 if time permits and if I can snatch it away from my kids.

I guess so, i can't compare since i've only used an Oculus Rift-S so far.
 

PS: Since it are your kids, you can "order" them to give it to you. Daddy wants to play should be reason enough...


Edited by Lange_666

Win11 Pro 64-bit, Ryzen 5800X3D, Corsair H115i, Gigabyte X570S UD, EVGA 3080Ti XC3 Ultra 12GB, 64 GB DDR4 G.Skill 3600. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base, MFG Crosswind combat pedals, TrackIR4, Rift-S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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Hi guys, I just tried this by the following method...I downloaded Supmuas profile, imported it, deleted DCS .exe association from the digital combat simulator profile and applied the .exe to the imported profile. DCS ran OK< but the first thing I noticed was that my normally smooth VR experience was really stuttery....I did not get much of a chance to check out the effect. I was more concerned at seeing if I could remove teh unwanted stuttering by reversing what I just did......however, this did not seem to give me back my previous smooth performance......

 

Any ideas? 

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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43 minutes ago, markturner1960 said:

Hi guys, I just tried this by the following method...I downloaded Supmuas profile, imported it, deleted DCS .exe association from the digital combat simulator profile and applied the .exe to the imported profile. DCS ran OK< but the first thing I noticed was that my normally smooth VR experience was really stuttery....I did not get much of a chance to check out the effect. I was more concerned at seeing if I could remove teh unwanted stuttering by reversing what I just did......however, this did not seem to give me back my previous smooth performance......

 

Any ideas? 

Mark, there're people who believe that this profile doesn't do squat so there shouldn't be any effect on your stuttering experience.

If you want to go back to the default profile just load the NVinspector app, and it should already bring up _Global profile by default, click apply changes, then reboot your PC.  You can also reset everything to default in NVIDIA control panel just in case.  If all else fail, DDU wipe NVIDIA but make sure to follow instructions carefully...takes about 10-15 min.

Just to be clear, it's not my profile ok lol.  I just followed the instructions posted by the OP and there was someone asking for the exported profile for ease of use.

Another food for thoughts.  If people believe that everything should work the way it's supposed to then everything should be bug-free including DCS itself, right?  That's not the case in the real world, as we have reports of all kinds of different results on everything.


Edited by Supmua

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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Yeah loss of performance is a new one on me, have not seen that reported. I know in my case my performance stayed the same.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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Yep you are correct, I prefer no mods in my games. I gave the Open XR Mod for DCS a try and just did not see enough of an improvement on my end along with a little less image clarity, so I reverted back to no Mods for DCS. If he gets eye tracking with foveated rendering working with the Aero and DCS I will likely give it another try, though I would much rather ED provide native support for Open XR myself. I really do loathe running a Mod.
I guess we kinda sorta get a little FFR through using the DCS VR Mask size, I do use that as it's native to DCS.
So you rolled back to steamvr.
I was beginning to think the openXR app might have had an effect on this remarkable 3d effect profile. The openXR made a big difference for me in playability and stability and that is a keeper for me. The fact that you could replicate the 3d effect in steamvr and openXR gives much credence to this 3d effect.

Windows 10 Pro 64bit|Ryzen 5600 @3.8Ghz|EVGA RTX 3070 XC3 Ultra|Corair vengence 32G DDR4 @3200mhz|MSI B550|Thrustmaster Flightstick| Virpil CM3 Throttle| Thrustmaster TFRP Rudder Pedal /Samsung Odyssey Plus Headset

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OK, I have done the suggested and still have badly impacted performance. Cant think what I have done? It was literally working absolutely fine before I tried this ( And by the way, no blame implied Supmua, from using the profile!) I am just flummoxed by what can have changed. My guess is something to do with some nvidia settings...., must be, as now I dont have my Digital combat siimulator black shark .exe profuile showing in Nvidia control panel


Edited by markturner1960
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System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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4 minutes ago, markturner1960 said:

OK, I have done the suggested and still have badly impacted performance. Cant think what I have done? It was literally working absolutely fine before I tried this ( And by the way, no blame implied Supmua, from using the profile!) I am just flummoxed by what can have changed. My guess is something to do with some nvidia settings...., must be

Is this with the Vive Pro 2 or the Reverb G2?  I can't help you with Reverb but I know a thing or two about the Vive platform, I did sell my Vive Pro 2 though so no longer have one to test with.


Edited by Supmua

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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OK, think I have solved it....obviously lost my DCS associated settings somehow in the process and it was using all the default profile settings. I re instated all my usual ones and its back to its lovely normal self!!! Phew!! 

 

Thanks for the kind offer Supmua ! I am using my G2 with DCS, as could not get the pro 2 to perform as well. I use the pro 2 on my sim racing rig and its fantatsic on that using assetto corsa, go figure!! 

 

Have to say, I think the G2 is bang for the buck the best headset for Vr in DCS, its awesome using the Openxr instea dof steam VR.....

 

Thanks again..

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System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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The comparative screenshots are notable and easily seen as different focusing solely in on the clouds rendering, and somewhat with the sun.  In each set of screens the clouds are changed between driver settings, so there is something going on even in those low quality screens that parts visible.

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Ok I ran images though this site https://online-image-comparison.com/, because I don't trust human eyes when it comes to measuring exact distances.  The red areas denote the differences between the two images.  The thickness of the red areas indicate the amount of differences.  For exact same images, there will be no red area in the comparison photo.

And it seems there's a slight difference because the red areas are uneven throughout much less so in the distance, you be the judge whether it's due to alignment issue or real differences.  The clouds difference is a given since they're not the same between the two images.

For example this is the result from the first 2 images (number 11 and 12).

6a4b2a836b22e1d9dda5d1d8bf0f9f0a.ZtR6ZM0liyc4lBEAHPFxGpHiIRkBpDmE.png


Edited by Supmua

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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And this is image 11.png compared with 11.png with 4 pixels shift to the right.  Notice how the thickness of the red area is much more uniform, especially in the distance.

 

6a4b2a836b22e1d9dda5d1d8bf0f9f0a.TxcDy7HDrQTUSqhTbHTWn8tbEjgBWd2l.png


Edited by Supmua

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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I bet those tool to compare images developed person who had bad times with finding Waldos/Wolly's* in childhood:

9781406380590-1.jpg

* In my country he was named Wolly

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HP Reverb G2, Samsung Odyssey Plus+, EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING 12GB GDDR6X, 32GB RAM, Intel i7-7700k 5.1GHz (OC), Hydro Series™ H100i v2 Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler, Buttkicker 2 Gamer+SSA Sound Module, Virpil MangoosT-CM2 Base+Grip, Logitech X56 Throttle +Rudder, Logitech Z906 5.1, LG OLED 55'' 4K 120Hz
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