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Pimax VR FPS issues (help needed)


xmudroller

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Pimaxvr i`ts like DCS no support anywhere.

This is bullcrap for us retired personal, What do  i need to run this game, I build me a computer in a year with my ssa check and look what i did.

X470 mb by gigabite a ryzen 2700X 8 cores a 850 watt power unit a rtx 2070 super, Please tell did i miss something

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which pimax in particular is it the Pimax 5k or 8KX?? Pimax is pretty brutal on systems especially if you run max FOV.

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  • ED Team
On 4/9/2022 at 3:11 PM, xmudroller said:

Pimaxvr i`ts like DCS no support anywhere.

This is bullcrap for us retired personal, What do  i need to run this game, I build me a computer in a year with my ssa check and look what i did.

X470 mb by gigabite a ryzen 2700X 8 cores a 850 watt power unit a rtx 2070 super, Please tell did i miss something

Post your DCS settings (screenshot) and I am sure other Pimax users can help you tune for the best results.

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  • NineLine changed the title to Pimax VR FPS issues (help needed)

yes, its best to say what is the problem. Than coming in here saying DCS no support..

 

 

 

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My settings from a previous post (below) may be of some help.  This may not be exactly what you need to resolve your issues, but it may be a good starting point for your research. 

With your hardware you may want to set Pimax quality to 1.0 and SteamVR quality to 100% or less.  Your VR device has a higher resolution than most devices, so you can rely on that rather than having to turn up MSAA or PD in the VR tab as you would with a Rift. 

This is still relatively new technology and DCS has high demands, so it's important to remember that it's going to require a time investment to adjust for performance.  Patience is your biggest asset.

On 3/22/2021 at 1:03 PM, StrongHarm said:

I've resolved the issue on my system.  My DCS Views were bound to other controls.  When you have fast response this isn't visible, but if your video isn't optimized it makes the jitter much more noticeable.  So, control bindings were the root cause, but bad vid response was a contributing symptom.  I'm at a solid 60FPS and 8ms response with a beautiful image free of shimmer/pixels/screendoors.  I did the following to resolve the issue:

  • PiTool
    • Create dedicated profile for DCS, do not rely on Common Settings
    • Upscale 114hz
    • Quality to 1.0 (EDIT: I've started using Pimax Quality 2.0 with SteamVR to 100% instead of 300%.  Pimax drivers handle the res better.  30fps gain)
    • All options unchecked
    • FOV normal
    • ** Huge visual quality improvement: Backlight 100%, DCS profile contrast +2, Brightness -2**
      • This fully eliminated the "washed out look" in DCS that I experienced with the Rift-s (which I may use for target practice this weekend)
    • Run Automatic Steam Modifications from PiMax VR Experience
    • **Only run DCS from PiTool, not from PiMax Experience
  • SteamVR
    • Quality to 300%   (EDIT: Set this to 100%.  I've started using Pimax Quality in favor of SteamVR.  After using Pimax VR Experience to auto set Steam settings, go back into SteamVR settings and move slider to 100% or the line which shows preferred res)
    • Advanced Supersampling off
    • Notifications off
    • SteamVR Always On Top off
    • Pause VR when computer locked off
    • SteamVR Home off
  • DCS
    • **Check controls and make sure "views" aren't bound to TM MFDs, pedals, or some other device!
      • I believe this was the root cause of the jitter.  Sometimes after updates DCS seems to auto map views, even if they were previously unmapped
      • If your visual response is low (turn on display performance graph in SteamVR popup outside of VR) jitter is much more pronounced, which is a symptom not a cause.
    • Pixel Density to 1.0
    • MSAA to 2x
    • SSLA and SSLR off
    • All visual settings can be as high as you like with little impact (since PD is 1.0.  We're relying on the high resolution rather than processing.)

Although this worked for me, mileage may vary on other systems.  If anyone has other suggestions or a link to a good PiMax/DCS guide, please speak up.

 

Edit: I should add my system specs:  i9-10900KF water cooled at 5.4ghz, 64g HyperX running at 3400, EVGA 3090 FTW3 not overclocked, Samsung M.2 drive dedicated to DCS.

Edit 2022: See Quality under PiTool and Quality under SteamVR above.  I used to let SteamVR handle the high res rather than PiTool, but Pimax drivers are now superior.  Pitool quality 2.0, SteamVR quality 100% or less)

 

 

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It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm

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YOU guys are really awesome people, I will try this for sure,Buy the way my system is Ryzen7 2700x 8 corer 32 Gigs of ram i  got 4  for sticks of 8 Gigs ea G skill flare X, X470mb,850w seasonic power unit, 3 Samsung ssd`s dr (F:/) And one samsung 870 nvls 500 Gigs  stick for the operating system drive (C:/).

Hope this is enough to play in vr thank you for your response and god bless.

Oh lord please forgive me, The hmd is 5k Super.

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xmudroller, with a 5k and the hardware you have, you should be good to go if your system is tweaked properly.  When I first got my Pimax I was running on an old system with an nVidia 1080ti.  After several hours of tweaking, and turning the DCS settings down, I was getting 30fps.  That's not great, but it was a solid 30fps with no jitter.  I've since upgraded and I'm running a solid 60fps in VR.  When I first got my new system I couldn't even fly it was so jittery, because I needed to configure my system and DCS.  The best hardware that money can buy doesn't guarantee a smooth flight... but patience and good tweaks typically do.

if you're interested in seeing how your system stacks up against others with a similar configuration, go to https://www.userbenchmark.com/ .  It's an online benchmark.  Click on "Free Download" at the top, then run the file you download.  It's not an install, just an executable.  When you analyze the results, don't be alarmed if it says "performing below potential" next to one of your system components.  This is in comparison with superfast enthusiast builds.  You're looking for where that piece of hardware sits between "poor" and "great".  If it's leaning far toward poor, you may need to do some more configuration on your build.

It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm

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I banged my head for many hours trying to tweak it out right.  I'm glad the effort was able to help someone.  Did you try PD at 1 and MFAA off to see how that looks?  Because I have a Pimax and the resolution is higher than other VR headsets, I don't rely on post processing to pull out more quality.  I have crystal clear graphics without them.  If PD 1.0 and MFAA 0 didn't look good enough, I think I'd go up a notch on the Pimax quality slider in Pitool.DCS and see what that did for the quality/performance balance.  I'd bet you'll go up in both quality and FPS with:

PD = 1.0
MFAA = 0
PiTool Quality = 1.25

Important:  Make sure you're changing the HMD settings for DCS in the Games > DCS profile in Pitool instead of in the HMD tab, then run the game from there.  I go to the DCS profile in Pitool and click Apply then Start everytime I start DCS.  I was surprised by how big of a difference this small step made.  Always start DCS from there, never from the desktop icon or Steam.

It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm

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Here are the questions you want to be asking yourself --

  • What resolution do I want to run?  Your headset is 2650x1440, so, it's like it has two really nice High-Def TV's in there. Speaking of TV's -- not every channel on my TV is high def, in fact most aren't, but even so it still looks pretty good.  Likewise, you're probably not gonna be able to play DCS in extreme high-def but it should still look pretty durn good.  So,  turn your resolution down a little.  One way to adjust resolution is with pixel density, however that's not the best way -- that gets out of hand real quick, as you've seen.  1.4 doesn't sound like a big number, but it's making your GPU work twice as hard.  MSAA has much the same effect.   Put your pixel density back down to 1.0, turn off MSAA for now, and turn your resolution down a little in the Pimax software.  Which seems like really great software, pound for pound it seems quite a bit more efficient that WMR etc.  Sounds like you're on the right track.  
  • What textures can my GPU handle?   We have some recent reports from 2000 series users that lowering textures can help.  I'd definitely turn terrain textures down, all looks the same to me and really woke my headset up when I did it.  You also might try cutting back on anisotropic filtering (?8x) and see what that does for ya.  I hate to turn down cockpit textures, see if you can get away with leaving that on high.  
  • How much can my CPU handle?  Probably a fair amount -- Ryzen has always played well with DCS --  but until you get this sorted, I'd consider turning shadows completely off, put water and clouds low, turn off civ traffic.  Those things kinda flog your CPU. 

Walk before you run.  Get your headset running first before you start experimenting with MSAA, shadows, water and clouds and such.  

Welcome home.  We'll get you flying.  


Edited by DeltaMike

Ryzen 5600X (stock), GBX570, 32Gb RAM, AMD 6900XT (reference), G2, WInwing Orion HOTAS, T-flight rudder

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On 4/15/2022 at 5:55 AM, StrongHarm said:

xmudroller, with a 5k and the hardware you have, you should be good to go if your system is tweaked properly.  When I first got my Pimax I was running on an old system with an nVidia 1080ti.  After several hours of tweaking, and turning the DCS settings down, I was getting 30fps.  That's not great, but it was a solid 30fps with no jitter.  I've since upgraded and I'm running a solid 60fps in VR.  When I first got my new system I couldn't even fly it was so jittery, because I needed to configure my system and DCS.  The best hardware that money can buy doesn't guarantee a smooth flight... but patience and good tweaks typically do.

if you're interested in seeing how your system stacks up against others with a similar configuration, go to https://www.userbenchmark.com/ .  It's an online benchmark.  Click on "Free Download" at the top, then run the file you download.  It's not an install, just an executable.  When you analyze the results, don't be alarmed if it says "performing below potential" next to one of your system components.  This is in comparison with superfast enthusiast builds.  You're looking for where that piece of hardware sits between "poor" and "great".  If it's leaning far toward poor, you may need to do some more configuration on your build.

I went back to your reference i got dcs on i.4, pitool 2.0, mfaa at 4x, And i`m getting 35 fps,And it looks  good of course all my settings are low, Except Anisotropic i got that one on 16, So thanks again for everything, God bless you man. 

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You're welcome brother air warrior (virtual).  When you say DCS on i.4 what do you mean?  Pitool at 2.0 is high, but doable.  MFAA 4x is unusually high, do you need that to take the jagged edges out?  I'm surprised you're getting 35fps with your settings that high.  When I'm doing a full tweak, I like to start at the best performance with quality in everything set as low as possible (DCS, PiTool, Steam) and work my way up with quality until it looks good enough.  When doing this, I set my PD to 1.0, my MFAA to 0, and PiTool to 1.0.  It still looked pretty good at those settings (because of the high resolution of the pimax), but I wanted to squeeze out some more quality for helo flight, so I went with pitool 1.25 and left PD at 1.0 and MFAA at 0.  I retained the 60 to 144 fps, but with great graphic detail.  I started turning up shadows, etc. in DCS and my FPS didn't take much of a hit with high settings.  When I can keep it simple, I'm a happy man.

EDIT: Thought of something else.  I wear prescription lenses, and in the beginning I didn't realize that eye correction carries over into virtual vision.  If you're near sighted or far sighted, it somehow translates into viewing the VR image.  I ended up getting some round "harry potter" type glasses from Brookes Brothers that fit in the goggles nicely.  Be aware.  Also, I've found that vertical and horizontal adjustment of the goggles on your head is critical.  I like to bring up the initial screen of DCS and stare at text while I adjust to the perfect spot that isn't blurry.  It's remarkable what a difference this makes in my experience with the pimax.  Luck to you, and God Bless you and yours as well.


Edited by StrongHarm

It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm

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Pixel density, a DCS setting found under the "VR" tab, is a relic of a past era.  Put that at 1.0 and never touch that slider again.  One fewer knob to twiddle, one step closer to your goal. 

Make sure you understand the difference between mSaa and mFaa.  The first -- a DCS setting -- is a real performance hog.  The second is an NVIDIA setting (and I don't know what it does).  

 

Ryzen 5600X (stock), GBX570, 32Gb RAM, AMD 6900XT (reference), G2, WInwing Orion HOTAS, T-flight rudder

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DeltaMike, what settings do you run your Pimax at?  Do you have the 5k or 8kx?

It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm

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I'm not using a Pimax.  Can only help with DCS settings and general math.  

The whole thing of leaving PD at 1.0 is kind of a best practice right now.  As is the idea of adjusting DCS frame size in just one place.

Way it works is, the HMD software (in your case, PiTools) figures out how big a frame it wants to request from DCS.  You can usually (not always) change this in the HMD software using some kind of scaling function.  If you're also using Steam VR, there are a couple of places to change that request in there also.  DCS can either comply or not comply, that's where PD comes in.  You multiply those values (and sometimes the square of those values) to come up with a DCS frame size.  That frame size determines how many FPS you're gonna get, the smaller the frame the faster it runs (but the less information you have to work with).

Basically my proposal is to set everything to 1.0 or 100% and adjust performance using PiTools alone.  The only reservation I have about that is, it sounds like "Render Quality" is per-axis, so the work your computer is doing correlates with the square of that setting.  So, once again, things can get out of hand quickly if you're not careful

With a 2000 series GPU he's almost certainly going to have to undersample, so in other words PiTools is probably going to ask for way more than his GPU can give.  So, he needs to do whatever yall do with masking and fixed foveated rendering and will probably need to have his Render Quality at some number less than 1.  Probably not much less, maybe 0.9 and I doubt he will have to go below 0.77 or so

We are also probably going to have to do something with textures, which seems to be a weakness of those 2000 series GPUs but best to get him running first before we start digging down into DCS settings.  You've got him most of the way there, well done

Ryzen 5600X (stock), GBX570, 32Gb RAM, AMD 6900XT (reference), G2, WInwing Orion HOTAS, T-flight rudder

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On 4/21/2022 at 2:42 PM, StrongHarm said:

When I'm doing a full tweak, I like to start at the best performance with quality in everything set as low as possible (DCS, PiTool, Steam) and work my way up with quality until it looks good enough.  When doing this, I set my PD to 1.0, my MFAA to 0, and PiTool to 1.0.  It still looked pretty good at those settings (because of the high resolution of the pimax), but I wanted to squeeze out some more quality for helo flight, so I went with pitool 1.25 and left PD at 1.0 and MFAA at 0.  I retained the 60 to 144 fps, but with great graphic detail.  I started turning up shadows, etc. in DCS and my FPS didn't take much of a hit with high settings. 

Regarding this; After getting a baseline of settings at the lowest possible visual quality (see quote), as I start increasing settings in DCS I'll sometimes take screenshots of my settings and name the files by their FPS reading.  I can then review the pictures and make a estimates on where my settings might land.  I like to make a simple mission in the DCS Mission Editor and use that for each test for consistency.  Most recently I started with the settings above, plus I used the "Low" graphic preset button in DCS video settings.  My FPS was 90-110, but as I raised the graphics settings in DCS, I found a happy medium between quality and performance with an FPS of ~60.  This should be used as a reference for ratio rather than a numeric target.  I have an RTX3090 vid card in a very powerful system (been building them since the 90s), so it's going to be difficult for most computers to meet or exceed those numbers.  With my previous system my target was 40fps with graphics settings up to around 6/10 quality.

I'm keeping my eye on the new Pimax 12k QLED coming in 2022 Q4.  The 8kx is breathtaking but they're saying the 12k is far superior... I just can't imagine how.  

  • Like 1

It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm

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On 4/21/2022 at 1:53 PM, xmudroller said:

I went back to your reference i got dcs on i.4, pitool 2.0, mfaa at 4x, And i`m getting 35 fps,And it looks  good of course all my settings are low, Except Anisotropic i got that one on 16, So thanks again for everything, God bless you man. 

How's it looking xmudroller?  Are you up and flying?  How's your performance and quality?  6/10 and 8/10 or the other way around?  If you have any challenges post them up.  If I haven't seen the issue someone on these boards probably has.  It doesn't seem like there are a lot of Pimax users, but they'll chime in eventually.

It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm

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No worries, I'm glad it worked out.  I think these boards were intended more for sharing experiences and for productive conversation with like minded sim people, rather than the semantic debate and volatile contradiction we can see happening more and more, not only on these forums, but on a lot of social sites.  I try to pay forward the respect and consideration others have shown me.  I hope we can keep it rolling so this forum grows in the right direction. 

  • Like 1

It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm

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4 hours ago, StrongHarm said:

No worries, I'm glad it worked out.  I think these boards were intended more for sharing experiences and for productive conversation with like minded sim people, rather than the semantic debate and volatile contradiction we can see happening more and more, not only on these forums, but on a lot of social sites.  I try to pay forward the respect and consideration others have shown me.  I hope we can keep it rolling so this forum grows in the right direction. 

Amen.

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