no bug Unreversible axis

[Woxof]

I'm a RL flight instructor (fixed-wing) and have a very good understanding of helicopter flight controls and how they are supposed to work.  I fly with a CH Fighterstick and Pro Throttle and TM pedals.  For a more realistic helicopter experience, I reverse the axis on the Pro Throttle so it provides a fairly good substitute for a collective.  I've used this setup for many years, starting with EA's Longbow, through EECH and for all the previous DCS helos, all of which I own.    I've always been happy with the results I've gotten.  Until now.  

I cannot get the throttle axis to reverse.  I can check the box in the Controls setup in the sim, but it doesn't reverse the axis.  I can check the box in Control Manager that I've used in the past as a last resort when I could not get the throttle axis to reverse any other way, but it doesn't work, either.  

I don't know how the RL helo pilots can fly the DCS Apache.  I sure can't.  So I'm reporting it as a bug.  If somebody can tell me how to reverse the axis, and see that it's not a bug, I'd appreciate it.  

 

 

[Rudel_chw]

19 minutes ago, Woxof said:

I don't know how the RL helo pilots can fly the DCS Apache.  I sure can't.  So I'm reporting it as a bug.  If somebody can tell me how to reverse the axis, and see that it's not a bug, I'd appreciate it.  

 

Have you tried checking both invert and slider? It works for me:

 

 

[Woxof]

Yep, did that.  No luck.

[MAXsenna]

I have no issue.  

[Rudel_chw]

3 minutes ago, Woxof said:

Yep, did that.  No luck.

 

Too bad, on my Thrustmaster Cougar throttle it inverts with no issue. Strange.

[MAXsenna]

5 minutes ago, Woxof said:

Yep, did that.  No luck.

Can you show us? 

It's very strange. And yes I agree with you. Not a real pilot, but my collective have to be reversed.  

[Woxof]

Well,  I got the throttle axis to reverse, but I used the setting in Control Manager, not the one in the sim.  I was careful to do a reboot and to be sure I had nothing running that was not essential to DCS.  We'll see how the process works over time. 

But at least I can fly the thing now.  On to the fun stuff!  (...like guns, rockets, Hellfires, etc.)

But the in-sim axis reverser still does not work, at least for me, so I'm leaving this here as a bug report.  

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Woxof

[MAXsenna]

"Control Manager"? Never heard of it. A CH app? 

[osram]

Afaik Control Manager support for CH Gear is long gone and from my experience not recommended. It can or most probably will lead to all sorts of issues as it's no longer supported and updated. My old gear was USB Pro Throttle and Fighterstick as well. Only the Rudder pedals remain nowadays.

I recommend uninstalling all of that or googling how to do it, potentially. And then just using the vanilla Windows "Plug&Play" Drivers and mode.
That setup still works without any issues and actually works best.

Ditch CH gear Control Manager. It might even be the cause for your current issue.

Edited April 11, 2022 by osram

[Ephedrin]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb osram:

Afaik Control Manager support for CH Gear is long gone and from my experience not recommended. It can or most probably will lead to all sorts of issues as it's no longer supported and updated. My old gear was USB Pro Throttle and Fighterstick as well. Only the Rudder pedals remain nowadays.

I recommend uninstalling all of that or googling how to do it, potentially. And then just using the vanilla Windows "Plug&Play" Drivers and mode.
That setup still works without any issues and actually works best.

Ditch CH gear Control Manager. It might even be the cause for your current issue.

 

I agree. When I used CH Products controllers I used to play and calibrate with the manager, too, and had issues all the time, overriding game settings etc. When I was told to uninstall it and did that the problems were gone. It‘s a Win XP tool if I remember correctly.

 

slightly off topic, but I honestly wonder how you can get good results with the Pro Throttle at all? It has such a bad resolution and short travel, the helicopters like the Apache must jump all around the place when hovering, speed control forward must be really difficult

Edited April 11, 2022 by Ephedrin

[Frederf]

On 4/10/2022 at 10:05 PM, MAXsenna said:

"Control Manager"? Never heard of it. A CH app? 

CH Control Manager is a fine program and is needed for things like turning axis into buttons and similar advanced logic. But for just things like curves, deadzones, and inversion of axes it's not needed and DCS handles these things quite well by itself.

[Deezle]

Are you sure you're reversing the correct input for the correct controller? This a core DCS function, zero reason it shouldn't work (I just tried it and it works).

 

Even though I built a collective and obviously prefer it for flying helos, when I did use a throttle I never reversed the axis, I just never though of a throttle as a close enough analog to a collective, so reversing it didn't really seem to bring any more enjoyment or familiarity to flying helos.

[pellelil]

Been flying with CH Products (Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals) for years, and never had any issues with them. However switched to Thurstmaster Warthog HOTAS in 2017 and haven't used the CH stick/throttle since that time (still using the Pro Pedals). I see no reason why you should not be able to invert the throttle input. You are sure its the correct axis you have mapped up in DCS (that you not by accident hit the mini-stick, so that is mapped up in stead?). Also check in DCS if axis of other controls are mapped up to collective, so you have multiple axis from different devices trying to control the the collective at the same time.

Beyond the issues mentioned above I see no reason why you should not be able to invert the axis in DCS. However if you for some reason can't, you are able to invert it in CH Manager, so that DCS simply sees the axis you have already inverted in CH Manager. It's been too long since I last used CH-manager, but I remember it can run in 3 different modes (3 different buttons in the top). In direct-mode (AFIK) the buttons/presses are send directly to whatever program is reading the devices, however there is an indirect mode (perhaps called something else), where the programs (such as DCS) are not able to see the physical device input, but in stead see the virtual devices you create with CH Manager. As far as I remember you will have to map all axis/buttons from the physical devices to the virtual devices you create (in your case you would have to create 2 - 1 for throttle and 1 for stick). I think you are able to define curves and invert axis in the GUI. Otherwise you would have to resort to using a script that do it (I used to do all kind of <profanity> with scripts back them) ... but again ... this shouldn't be necessary ... but perhaps worth a try.

[Bunny Clark]

3 hours ago, Frederf said:

CH Control Manager is a fine program and is needed for things like turning axis into buttons and similar advanced logic. But for just things like curves, deadzones, and inversion of axes it's not needed and DCS handles these things quite well by itself.

"Fine" is pretty relative. If it works it's fine, if it doesn't you have no recourse.  And it can stop working unexpectedly and without obvious cause. I had some issues with it years ago that caused my Pro Throttle to randomly stop working entirely until my computer was rebooted. When I e-mailed CH support about it I was told that it was no longer supported and "not fully compatible with Windows 10." They recommended uninstalling it and calibrating with Windows, and even linked to Joystick Gremlin for more advanced features.

Uninstalling Control Manager solved my issue, and I never had another problem with my Pro Throttle until I retired it. 

[DiscoVolante]

There is a bug with this.  Collective axis does not invert for cp/g, but does invert for pilot.  I had pilot mapped first.  I'm using TM warthog, but doubt this issue is hw/driver related.

[hannibal]

On 4/10/2022 at 9:57 PM, Woxof said:

Well,  I got the throttle axis to reverse, but I used the setting in Control Manager, not the one in the sim.  I was careful to do a reboot and to be sure I had nothing running that was not essential to DCS.  We'll see how the process works over time. 

But at least I can fly the thing now.  On to the fun stuff!  (...like guns, rockets, Hellfires, etc.)

But the in-sim axis reverser still does not work, at least for me, so I'm leaving this here as a bug report.  

 

 

 

Control manager...do not use it.. stick with windows default drivers..

On 4/12/2022 at 3:56 AM, Bunny Clark said:

"Fine" is pretty relative. If it works it's fine, if it doesn't you have no recourse.  And it can stop working unexpectedly and without obvious cause. I had some issues with it years ago that caused my Pro Throttle to randomly stop working entirely until my computer was rebooted. When I e-mailed CH support about it I was told that it was no longer supported and "not fully compatible with Windows 10." They recommended uninstalling it and calibrating with Windows, and even linked to Joystick Gremlin for more advanced features.

Uninstalling Control Manager solved my issue, and I never had another problem with my Pro Throttle until I retired it. 

Exactly..they never supported past win 7

[Floyd1212]

12 hours ago, DiscoVolante said:

Collective axis does not invert for cp/g, but does invert for pilot.

Can you be more specific with what you are seeing?

You go into the Axis Tune for the Collective for the CPG and clicking the checkbox for "Invert" does not reverse the slope of the axis?  Or it does, but it seems to have no effect while flying?

[Frederf]

14 hours ago, DiscoVolante said:

There is a bug with this.  Collective axis does not invert for cp/g, but does invert for pilot.  I had pilot mapped first.  I'm using TM warthog, but doubt this issue is hw/driver related.

I have inverted the CP/G collective axis independent of the Pilot collective axis on my client successfully. Ensure that in CONTROL OPTIONS you select the "AH-64D CP/G" from the left hand drop down menu. When you press Esc and ADJUST CONTROLS on MISSION PAUSED menu the control set which is select is the "AH-64D Pilot" regardless of which seat you are in when you enter the options and must be changed to adjust CP/G controls.

[DiscoVolante]

2 hours ago, Frederf said:

Ensure that in CONTROL OPTIONS you select the "AH-64D CP/G" from the left hand drop down menu.

I was setting up my controls for CP/G so I had that control set selected.  The axis and are bound and work as CP/G, just couldn't get the collective to invert.

4 hours ago, Floyd1212 said:

You go into the Axis Tune for the Collective for the CPG and clicking the checkbox for "Invert" does not reverse the slope of the axis?  Or it does, but it seems to have no effect while flying?

The slope did invert in the axis tune menu.  I was setting it mid-flight.  I went back today to see if the check box was saving and it's now working correctly after a reset.

[macedk]

Sounds like the product program is interfering with DCS. Close program and launch DCS and see if it works now. 

Invert works for me on
tm warthog
lg wheel
lg gamepad
tm cougar
st pedals.