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Apache so far for me :)


macedk

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Hi all. 
For the start, like many others, had a hard time controlling the bird. What helped me was, acquire  knowledge and keep trying. 
First for me was my actual controls, check for center play and make deadzones (my Warthog is from day one and rudder pedals are the saitek/now logitech.)  
My rudders pedals were bad, so 6 million screws later, cleaned and lubed. They are not super smooth but better after cleaning. Biggest thing was to put 25 curve on them. Tral and error, it is a grind but those hours pays of in spades. 

Will there come a day for me when I don't fly with the control window up ? I have 12 hours and so far no. I could have a hotas command for on and off, if I get a Casmo moment ;), but for know it stays on. 

Flying wise, slowing down demanded a lot more input and attention to detail, So practice and anticipate like you have never done before. 
 

Systems, still working on my cp/g setup, watching a lot of videos.

Frustration: yes there are bugs, but 80% is just bad handeling. Flying a helicopter is hard. 


Night, I'm not even close to doing nights but it will come if I put in the effort. 

Fun and tough so far for me. 
Thanks for the opportunity DCS

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Mon: Asus vg2448qe 24"

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Stick: TM Warthog #1400/Saitek pro pedals/TIR5/TM MFDs

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For copters very important thing are rudder pedals. I used many, I had Logitech, Saitek and CH Products Pro (It's all basically crap for copters In my opinion, sorry). There is no need to save $ on this element, it requires a lot and good quality pays for itself immediately. Personally, I think that the AH-64 is quite easy to pilot and a lot of forgiveness.


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11 minutes ago, macedk said:

Hi all. 
For the start, like many others, had a hard time controlling the bird. What helped me was, acquire  knowledge and keep trying. 
First for me was my actual controls, check for center play and make deadzones (my Warthog is from day one and rudder pedals are the saitek/now logitech.)  
My rudders pedals were bad, so 6 million screws later, cleaned and lubed. They are not super smooth but better after cleaning. Biggest thing was to put 25 curve on them. Tral and error, it is a grind but those hours pays of in spades. 

Will there come a day for me when I don't fly with the control window up ? I have 12 hours and so far no. I could have a hotas command for on and off, if I get a Casmo moment ;), but for know it stays on. 

Flying wise, slowing down demanded a lot more input and attention to detail, So practice and anticipate like you have never done before. 
 

Systems, still working on my cp/g setup, watching a lot of videos.

Frustration: yes there are bugs, but 80% is just bad handeling. Flying a helicopter is hard. 


Night, I'm not even close to doing nights but it will come if I put in the effort. 

Fun and tough so far for me. 
Thanks for the opportunity DCS

I see your "not even close to nights" and raise you. I have not fired a single shot in anger yet. I'm still trying to get used to her and am feel really good about landing and hovering. I'm using the Winwing Super Taurus setup with a stick extension. Stick extension helps a lot. 

Did you get the desired result from the 25 curve in your peddles? 

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DO it or Don't, but don't cry about it. Real men don't cry!

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This goes to anyone feeling left out because he doesnt have good rudder pedals:

Please dont worry about it! Im sure everyone here is right and that its very important to have good ones and im also sure that its makes things so much easier.

But this doesnt mean that only that works. I felt like that too for the first 2 weeks, because everyone in videos had it looking so smooth and always i thought like "yeah, they have good rudder pedals, thats why they can fly like that".

Now we have a few weeks later and im flying this thing with my joystick twist axis out of choice. And it works really not too bad. It took hours of practice, probably around 25 to 30h but im really feeling proficient enough to do everything the module offers so far. Landing on the spot, by hover or rolling, hovering in air without ground effect, going down quickly without going into vortex ring state, doing wild maneuvers, it all works after enough practice. Those were the hardest, because movig twist without changing the cyclic isnt easy. But its doable. Didnt try much in the night yet though but im sure it will come now soon. I did quite a few missions now and starting to be able to focus on the missions, instead of fighting the controls, now more and more, after each hour more i spent time with it.

Just keep on trying, you will feel so amazing when the moment comes where it all comes together and you are in control.
If i can, probably most other can too. Dont take having not enough money to buy 200 Euro pedals as an excuse to not fly this bird, you would loose out on tons of fun. Going through the phase of doing nothing but learning to control this bird was hard but the reward was the best DCS experience i ever had.
And i hope everyone else can experience the same, regardless of his hardware.


Edited by Senchay
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You don't need expensive torque pedals in DCS. Though I'm waiting for the Slaw RH Rotors, I've been using the cheap TM Flight whatever. The spring is super easy to remove and re-attach, and for the h**l of it, I added some (a lot actually) Nyogel, and whoa, that was something. Though they will be dust collectors now, literally.
They are a little narrow though, but if you can't shell out, you'll be more than happy. Been using them for 2,5 years, several hours almost every day.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk



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Stiction and/or over-center "bump" in rudder pedals, if there is any at all, really does suck with helis. It doesn't bother me at all in jets.  The TFRS pedals are just all-around bad for the Apache.  I was fine with mine until this bird, now forget it...they're junk.  Even if I Nyogel the stiction away and remove springs etc the pedals are simply too damned close together to get any proper control.  Real heli torque pedals are wide-set for that specific reason...fine control.  I also want to add an extension on my Warthog for the same concept with cyclic.

in summary, the Apache is so incredibly good and I love it so much that I'm preparing to smash another piggy bank for better controls. 

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On 4/14/2022 at 9:54 PM, Jackjack171 said:

I see your "not even close to nights" and raise you. I have not fired a single shot in anger yet. I'm still trying to get used to her and am feel really good about landing and hovering. I'm using the Winwing Super Taurus setup with a stick extension. Stick extension helps a lot. 

Did you get the desired result from the 25 curve in your peddles? 

Thanks.
Yes and no, The curve helps a lot but the pedals are worn. They are not spiking and I been away from the dancefloor for years 😉. It was a "Phil Style" video on the spitfire and curves, that got looking deeper into that 🙂


Edited by macedk
Fact error corrected.
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OS: Win10 home 64bit*MB: Asus Strix Z270F/

CPU: Intel I7 7700k /Ram:32gb_ddr4

GFX: Nvidia Asus 1080 8Gb

Mon: Asus vg2448qe 24"

Disk: SSD

Stick: TM Warthog #1400/Saitek pro pedals/TIR5/TM MFDs

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Stiction and/or over-center "bump" in rudder pedals, if there is any at all, really does suck with helis. It doesn't bother me at all in jets.  The TFRS pedals are just all-around bad for the Apache.  I was fine with mine until this bird, now forget it...they're junk.  Even if I Nyogel the stiction away and remove springs etc the pedals are simply too damned close together to get any proper control.  Real heli torque pedals are wide-set for that specific reason...fine control.  I also want to add an extension on my Warthog for the same concept with cyclic.
in summary, the Apache is so incredibly good and I love it so much that I'm preparing to smash another piggy bank for better controls. 
Well, yeah. If you're referring to the TM TFPR/T.Flight.
They are narrow, but there is a free 3D printed mod out there that fixes it easily.
What I hate waaaaay more, is that you're supposed to put your feet "in" them. What idiot thought that was a good design? So, I don't. But then they're a little more cumbersome to use.
Two nice things about them. When you slide them back and forth, the distance between them doesnt change. And if you remove the spring, they don't have centre detent at all.
As for the Apache. It seems much more sensitive on the rudders compared to other heli modules. I never use curves.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

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If you haven’t joined already, come over to casmotv’s low level hell discord and hang out in the Apache channel. Several Apache pilots in there willing to give tips

if you’re willing to play online there’s a decent number of guys wanting random multicrew action etc. You could be my CPG and I’ll help walk you through stuff if you want. I’ve focused more on CPG than piloting since the Apache came out 

https://discord.gg/n2hzkEbn


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21 hours ago, Jackjack171 said:

I have not fired a single shot in anger yet.

Same boat! Still getting to grips with basic manoeuvres - lots of rolling take off, banking turns and an attempt to land at a place of my choosing - not where the aircraft takes me - normally resulting in No1 Eng destruction. 

21 hours ago, macedk said:

Will there come a day for me when I don't fly with the control window up ? I have 12 hours and so far no.

For now going with leaving it off, then after a flight turning it on to see where all my various trimming inputs have 'centred' the controls. Normally find the pedals are slightly left pedal forward and the cyclic about a third of the way fwd pitch close to centre.

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2 hours ago, Steel Jaw said:

best rudder pedals?

Currently using TM Flight Pedals - which seem OK once use to them and tuned correctly. Have set them up with custom curves, and  to be honest they perform fine - albeit still learning to fly the AH - but getting easier by the hour...

Think everyone is forgetting the AH is old technology - first flown in mid 70's so the DCS model is 30 years in the making. Up close and personal the flying controls are pretty agricultural, and quite heavy - so when people are comparing them with something like a Gazelle - there is no comparison as such.

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On 4/14/2022 at 2:13 PM, Nevyn said:

Sticky rudder pedals are a bane of my existence. This year is a Crosswind year, even if I have to sell of a few of my kids to get them, I can always make more kids, it's easy peasy.

you'll love 'em.  a great set of pedals, solid build.   I can't imagine flying anything without them at this point.

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On 4/15/2022 at 5:20 AM, macedk said:

Thanks.
Yes and no, The curve helps a lot but the pedals are worn. They are not spiking and I been away from the dancefloor for years 😉. I think it was a Redkite video on the spitfire and curves, that got looking deeper into that 🙂

I have an old Logitech Rudder Pedals and also, after 6 miliion screws and lots of elbow grease later, they work fine. My curve for rudder pedal is 25, with 90 Y Saturation. Yes, I lose the 100% travel on the rudder, but who needs it: if you are using 100% pedal on a helicopter you are doing it wrong. Also, 90 Y Saturation gives me a better resolution, so it is not that twitchy.

And, most importantly, the SCAS system works for you, although it seems the opposite. If you press RCrtl+Enter twice you'll see the controls indicator on the left, and the SCAS channels on the upper right. Although its initials are in russian, pay attention to the "H" channel, the vertical one. It shows the amount of input the SCAS system is inserting on the system.

I don't know if you have experience on other choppers in DCS, but normally, for instance a hover, you need to input X to turn right and then take out the same amount X to stop rotation where you want the nose to be pointing at. But with the SCAS system on the Apache, if you, for instance, want to turn right, you input X amount of right pedal and the need to take out Y amount of rudder, being Y less than X.

And why does that happen? Because the SCAS system is trying to compensate for the movement to the right you are doing, by inputing some left pedal in. Yes, it is fighting your inputs. But, if you starting doing what I said, input X and take out Y, you will see that once you remove pedal input the SCAS system will stop and maintain heading exactly where you want it to be.

I believe it is not the right way things should work, the right thing is to press trim, then the SCAS would disengage, you would point wherever you want and then release trim so the SCAS system would maintain the desired heading. However, as it is already known, if you press the trim button and try to change attitude, the system turns off and you have an uncontrollable bird on your hand. So, the best thing that is working for me, on the yaw channel, is to input a certain amount and take out that input by a lesser amount. And tap trim, move, tap trim, move, tap trim, move...

 

Ans regarding curves, maybe this helps:

 


Edited by RodBorza

This is an amazing sim! 'Nuff said!:pilotfly:

 

YouTube: SloppyDog

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@RodBorzaThat was the video i thought was made by RedKite. I'll go back and fix that post 🙂
Thx for the input 🙂

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OS: Win10 home 64bit*MB: Asus Strix Z270F/

CPU: Intel I7 7700k /Ram:32gb_ddr4

GFX: Nvidia Asus 1080 8Gb

Mon: Asus vg2448qe 24"

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Stick: TM Warthog #1400/Saitek pro pedals/TIR5/TM MFDs

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On 4/15/2022 at 2:39 PM, S. Low said:

If you haven’t joined already, come over to casmotv’s low level hell discord and hang out in the Apache channel. Several Apache pilots in there willing to give tips

if you’re willing to play online there’s a decent number of guys wanting random multicrew action etc. You could be my CPG and I’ll help walk you through stuff if you want. I’ve focused more on CPG than piloting since the Apache came out 

https://discord.gg/n2hzkEbn

 

Thx and I am lurking on the Casmo discord 🙂
Don't have the Syria map. 
Do find it good fun to see Casmo, when he goes into "nervous flier mode", when flying with randoms 🙂

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OS: Win10 home 64bit*MB: Asus Strix Z270F/

CPU: Intel I7 7700k /Ram:32gb_ddr4

GFX: Nvidia Asus 1080 8Gb

Mon: Asus vg2448qe 24"

Disk: SSD

Stick: TM Warthog #1400/Saitek pro pedals/TIR5/TM MFDs

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/14/2022 at 5:26 PM, Fuggzy said:

Stiction and/or over-center "bump" in rudder pedals, if there is any at all, really does suck with helis. It doesn't bother me at all in jets.  The TFRS pedals are just all-around bad for the Apache.  I was fine with mine until this bird, now forget it...they're junk.  Even if I Nyogel the stiction away...

Ok my Thrustmaster TFRP pedals are tolerable now.  Still too close together -- maybe I'll address that with the mod.  But to cure stiction, I bought 5yds of this UMHW sefl-lubricating tape with acrylic adhesive:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00823JFAI?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I simply removed the 6 screws on each pedal that hold the 3 rail clamps in place, and put little squares of the tape to cover the plastic rail slide feet so that plastic never touches the metal rails, only the teflon tape.  It works FAR better than Nyogel -- it creates an almost imperceptible cushion on the rails in addition to absolutely zero stiction.  Took me 15 minutes, very easy to do and transformed these pedals into ones that will work smoothly with helos.  I left the centering springs in place, still have the bump over center but it's far less annoying with everything smoothed up.

Hopefully the acrylic adhesive holds well over time.  2 days, good so far.  lol 

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1 hour ago, pii said:

I find myself forgetting to turn it on more and more. 

I have just over 40 hours in my learning process so far, have been able to keep it off ok now.

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On 4/17/2022 at 7:41 AM, Steel Jaw said:

best rudder pedals?

I recently got the TM TPR Pendular peddles and they replaced my (man, must be at least 30 year old) TM aluminum rudder peddles and other than having to nail them to the floor, they are totally fantastic!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/28/2022 at 6:40 AM, ApacheLongbow said:

Thanks for the tip, I'm also using Nyogel, but I much prefer my old Molycote high speed grease for it. At the same time, the best solution I found to mitigate it's grave stiction problem is simply to sit farther away from it, thus creating a shallower angle between my legs and the pedals. This insures that the force is transferred to the pedals and into the rails and not perpendicularly on top of them.

Yes this is a great point.  I also found when my pedals are in the most comfy position for me, I'm resting my leg weight on them.  Push them out a ways so there's less weight...less stiction too.  I'm mentioning it because so far the stick tape is holding in place, and WOW... it's better than grease.  I can practically stand on the things and no stiction, and after kicking the Apache all over the sky for a week it's still perfect.  I was even able to back-off the axis curve a bunch to get more linear control, without all that sticking throwing me off.

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On 4/15/2022 at 1:08 PM, Leg2ion said:

Same boat! Still getting to grips with basic manoeuvres - lots of rolling take off, banking turns and an attempt to land at a place of my choosing - not where the aircraft takes me - normally resulting in No1 Eng destruction. 

For now going with leaving it off, then after a flight turning it on to see where all my various trimming inputs have 'centred' the controls. Normally find the pedals are slightly left pedal forward and the cyclic about a third of the way fwd pitch close to centre.

 

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