ColonelColt Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) I'm hoping someone can explain this. My group is running a small insertion mission with some Mi-8s. Fly in, drop off troops, support from the air with guns or rockets. Due to the heavy weight of troops I started wondering, how much lighter is the helicopter for landing if I dump the rockets on the way in? Easiest way to test this is starting loaded up, take off fire everything quickly, land again. I've done this several times now and the results don't add up. These numbers are loaded with 50% fuel and 120 S-8OFP2, the maximum load. Keep in mind each rocket is supposed to weigh 16.7 kg according to the in game encyclopedia and, as far as I know, the rocket pods are basically just thick sheet metal surrounding some aluminum alignment grids. According to a couple of sources the rocket pod should weigh 123 kg, presumably unloaded. Unfired: 12413 Fired: 12394 No rocket pods: 9652 None of this really makes sense. 16.7 * 120 = 2004 kg. When we fire the rockets we only lose... 19 kg. When we subtract the now empty pods we get a loss of 2742 which would make sense for the rockets and some left over for the pods, fittings, etc. 6*123 = 738 + 2004 = 2742 so that in game weigh is spot on... Or would be if the pods still had rockets in them. Anyone have a clue what's going on here? Maybe this is something everyone already knows but searching the forums and Google I found no mention of this. In the end we're effectively being robbed of losing a ridiculous amount of weight firing the pods. 2004 kg isn't nothing. That's 4418 pounds and change. My 2000 Jeep XJ at max factory weight is 3386 pounds. 4418 pounds is about what a full size rhino weighs. A rhino. I'm hesitant to report this as a bug but just looking at the number I don't see how it can be anything else. The only other theory I could come up with is that the programmers left the weight on there to simulate drag but that also don't really make sense from what I know of flight modeling in DCS even for older stuff. Thoughts? If the powers that be think this might be a bug feel free to move the thread to the bug section. Thanks Edited April 14, 2023 by ColonelColt 2 In DCS the old gods are dead and we pray to the new gods RNG and Fate. It's time to toss the dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAXsenna Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 My take on this, is that I played through "The Border" campaign a while back, and I had some serious take off issues every time I was loaded with rockets. Basically had to use rolling take offs (from FARPs, that's fun ) or just relying on getting into ground effect and crossing my fingers with that trans tendency name that escapes my, if I was up in the mountain. Didn’t matter if I shot all my rockets too, just felt very heavy. Too heavy.One mission was to pick up somebody or some weight at night on the return to base. Had to fly around and around to get enough hight to get over a mountain. Never bothered to report this as I did finish the campaign, and did learn to be extremely smooth with the controls. But yes, I do agree that I "feel" somethings off with the rocket/launcher weight.Up in the hills and far away on Easter holidays now. But if I remember to make a track when I get home, I will.Cheers! Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelColt Posted April 15, 2022 Author Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) Yeah I don't think it's just the numbers that are off. You can compare screenshots of the Mi-8 sitting on the the ground unloaded, empty rocket pods, and fired rocket pods... And there's almost no change when empty but removing the pods there's a visible change. I didn't bother posting screenshots in my original post because we've all seen the same screens and I kind of want other people to go check my numbers. Obviously things will be a little off due to fuel state but not that much. Edited April 15, 2022 by ColonelColt 1 In DCS the old gods are dead and we pray to the new gods RNG and Fate. It's time to toss the dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelColt Posted April 17, 2022 Author Share Posted April 17, 2022 I did some tests with the Hind with the exact same rocket type but it can only carry four pods of 20 at a time. Even at 50% fuel this is overweight. As you can clearly see below the numbers are also way off. -- Expected Weights -- Expected rocket weight: 1336 at 16.7 kg per rocket for 80 rockets. Expected weight pods: 492 at 123 kg per four pods. Expected total system weight: 1828 -- In Sim Armament Panel Weights -- Unfired: 11617 Fired: 11600 Removed: 9789 Loaded rocket pods weight in armament panel when removed: 1828 So in this case 80 rockets weighs around 16 kg, taking into consideration small variance in fuel. I tried to eliminate that as much as possible. 1 In DCS the old gods are dead and we pray to the new gods RNG and Fate. It's time to toss the dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAXsenna Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Very thorough testing indeed! What is the actual weight of one rocket in real life? Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelColt Posted April 17, 2022 Author Share Posted April 17, 2022 Wikipedia says 16.7. One other source says 16.2. The first number agrees with the in game encyclopedia. Is there some way to flag a mod to get this moved to the bug section? In DCS the old gods are dead and we pray to the new gods RNG and Fate. It's time to toss the dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAXsenna Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Wikipedia says 16.7. One other source says 16.2. The first number agrees with the in game encyclopedia. Is there some way to flag a mod to get this moved to the bug section?@BIGNEWY or @NineLineCould you guys have a look, and move this to the bugs section as requested by @ColonelColt?Cheers! Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted April 17, 2022 ED Team Share Posted April 17, 2022 please attach a short track replay with rockets loaded and fired and I will ask the team to check the weights. thanks 1 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelColt Posted April 18, 2022 Author Share Posted April 18, 2022 @BIGNEWY I hope this suffices. Unfortunately it doesn't appear the armament panel comes up in tracks so it's just me quickly taking off, firing rockets, landing. I can create a separate one for the Hind if you want but this is a very generalized bug that's easy to replicate at least on my end. I've also attached the specific mission file I did this test in. Thanks! Mi-8 Rocket Weight Track.trk PG Mi-8 Mi-24 Rocket Weight Test.miz 2 In DCS the old gods are dead and we pray to the new gods RNG and Fate. It's time to toss the dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted April 18, 2022 ED Team Share Posted April 18, 2022 I have asked the team to check it out. thank you 2 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelColt Posted August 19, 2022 Author Share Posted August 19, 2022 Any news on this? I see they've been working on the Hind and I would hope some of the Mi-8 stuff would be related. 2 In DCS the old gods are dead and we pray to the new gods RNG and Fate. It's time to toss the dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 On 8/19/2022 at 10:38 AM, ColonelColt said: Any news on this? I see they've been working on the Hind and I would hope some of the Mi-8 stuff would be related. Out of curiosity you meant sources for B8V20A weight. Interestingly enough all the Mi-24 sources I’ve read had BV820A weight at 100 kg, but clearly in DCS it is 123 kg. perahaps it is part of this or not, you said you had some sources pointing to 123 kg being correct? Have you learned anything about it? 1 Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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