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AMD 5800X3D, the new King for flight simulators?


maxsin72

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The new generation of CPUs will be released in Autumn. But if you cannot wait, then if MSFS is any indicator, 5800X3D beats 12900K by a wide margin.

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/amd-5800x3d-performance/510937

Keep in mind that other, more typical games do not always show such improvements. 

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Keep in mind, that the 5800X3D will only give you an edge over a 5900x for example in very special scenarios in DCS, VR for example. It has more cash memory, sure, but it lacks a couple of hundred MHz on every other high end CPU. And if you do anything else than DCS (or FS2020) you will loose performance. (I mean in other more multi-core oriented fields like productivity and such. In most games you won't notice much of a difference anyway, since most are mainly GPU limited. I assume you don't want to play in HD with such a budget.)

I could choose freely between the 5900x and the 5800x3D, and after doing benchmarking on both I decided to keep the 5900x. Since VR is not my main focus, there were simply more down than upsides to it. I can't personally compare to an Intel.

One of the main issues I had with the 3D was it's heat generation. It's a single-Die Ryzen in the end and it's get fricking hot compared to the 5900x. All inside specs and nothing concerning but I didn't like it. (On a custom waterloop! But that's secondary because the heat conduction of the ryzen in general from inside to outside is terrible).


Edited by Hiob

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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Mines hotter than the 3600 @4.3Ghz by about 10°C on load with the L3 cache in use (in DCS or small FFT runs in prime95), gets up to aron 75°C, it idles at 33°C; this is on air.  I only play in VR or 1080p because that's what my monitor is 😄

It's certainly a very focused cpu and has a rather niche place, but if AMD can solve the heat issues and incorporate it into the newer generations then they're going to be monsters!

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16 hours ago, Canada_Moose said:

I just had a choice to make on my 3700X upgrade. Went with the 5900X in the end over the 5800 X3D for several reasons already mentioned here. This is my last hurrah on the AM4 platform and I really did not want to change mobo at this point.

I'm tempted to do the same because in the UK the 5900x is about 100 less and I think I'd need to buy more expensive cooling for the X3D.

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5 hours ago, mbits said:

I'm tempted to do the same because in the UK the 5900x is about 100 less and I think I'd need to buy more expensive cooling for the X3D.

I'm happy with my choice. Its a solid all rounder and I use my PC for productivity more than simming so the 12 cores really helps.

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So what is the deal now???

Looks like many people feel that DCS takes good from the Cache, but still no good benchmarks vs 12700k.
I plan as well an upgrade and i am not sure if the 12700k or 5800X3D is better.

If Upgrade to Intel i could also upgrade next generation (raptor lake). Sure nobody can say how this will compare to the 5800X3D, but maybe this a thing here to take note?
Next AMD with only DDR5 Support is no deal for me.

I play only Multiplayer such as Buddyspike, Enigma, Growling Sidewinder..
CPU would be combo with RTX 3080 and still in 1080p (YES!)
 

So its 5800X3D or 12700k and furture upgrade 13700k.
What you think?
 

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16 minutes ago, -Relax- said:

So what is the deal now???

Looks like many people feel that DCS takes good from the Cache, but still no good benchmarks vs 12700k.
I plan as well an upgrade and i am not sure if the 12700k or 5800X3D is better.

If Upgrade to Intel i could also upgrade next generation (raptor lake). Sure nobody can say how this will compare to the 5800X3D, but maybe this a thing here to take note?
Next AMD with only DDR5 Support is no deal for me.

I play only Multiplayer such as Buddyspike, Enigma, Growling Sidewinder..
CPU would be combo with RTX 3080 and still in 1080p (YES!)
 

So its 5800X3D or 12700k and furture upgrade 13700k.
What you think?
 

Sorry, I can only compare AMD, since I have no Intel platform. But the conclusion for me is pretty straightforward. 5800x3D only makes sense for VR (or very CPU limited scenarios). In any other case you get a lot more for your money when you take a 5900x for less.

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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Yeah for this CPU limited scenarios i asking me if the 5800X3D will help more over a 12700k!?

Here is a good video about the limitations in DCS
 


So for this situations where the bad CPU Frametimes comming from the "Simulations" (Scripts Multiplayer Servers.. like enigma server)
Whats better here, the cache or Singlecore-performance?

It would be so nice if 2 people would do some tests here (1 with 12700/12900 and other with 5800X3D)

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Sorry to disappoint you (a little) but it is a tiny bit more complicated than this.

The main bottleneck here is not the clock speed but the poor multi-core-utilization (don't get me wrong - clock speed is good and more is better, but you won't notice the difference between 4900 and 5100 (amd to intel) in more than 0.X fps gain - unless severely CPU bound)

And regarding clock speed the 5800X3D is the looser here - by far! We're talking 500 MHz here. BUT the <profanity>load of additional cache helps in very certain scenarios. VR is one of them.

A 5100 Mhz Intel will beat a common 4900 MHz Ryzen by probably 4%. But the 5800X3D beats it's common 4900 MHz counterpart by 20% (IN THOSE SCENARIOS!).

So, if the one and only task you're planning to throw at your CPU is DCS - I'd say go with the 5800X3D. In any other case. Take a 5900X or an Intel.


Edited by Hiob
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"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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DCS vr is the only thing that knowingly stressed my 3600, the opportunity came up to grab the 5800X3D so I did so to alleviate the bottleneck and future proof some more.

The 5800X3D has more than halved my CPU times (and in some instances quartered) for the same situation compared to me 3600 at pretty much the same clock speed. How that compares to a lower cache, higher clock speed Intel I don't know.

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Roger Thanks. 

I mean the only thing i dont get is why it would only or significant help more on VR than in 2D.
Realy talking only about the scenarios where you are in the "cpu limit"

Will inform a little more, but guess it´s time to switch as i dont do other things on the PC than www. or gaming.
DCS is the maingame and other games i play are also quite cpu bound like "Squad", "Post Scriptum" Maybe this also help here with the Cache..

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2 hours ago, edmuss said:

DCS vr is the only thing that knowingly stressed my 3600, the opportunity came up to grab the 5800X3D so I did so to alleviate the bottleneck and future proof some more.

The 5800X3D has more than halved my CPU times (and in some instances quartered) for the same situation compared to me 3600 at pretty much the same clock speed. How that compares to a lower cache, higher clock speed Intel I don't know.

I'd like to see DCS VR and non VR on both the X3D and the 5900x as the latter is cheaper and needs less cooling.

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Because both, the GPU and the CPU have literally two different scenes to render at the same time (left eye, right eye). But the resolution of both individual scenes is lower than a typical „full“ 2D image. But the workload for CPU doesn’t scale as much with resolution as the workload for the GPU does.

In result the GPU has 2x 80% to do, whilst the CPU has 2x 100%. 

(the numbers are just estimates - I don’t know the actual factors)

Same reason that in general any difference in game performance vanishes with higher resolution. The higher the resolution, the more GPU bottlenecked you are,

2 minutes ago, mbits said:

I'd like to see DCS VR and non VR on both the X3D and the 5900x as the latter is cheaper and needs less cooling.

I did exactly that test. No difference fps in pancake whatsoever (in 1440p and in 4K), but between 20-25% better CPU frametimes in VR depending on the scene.

I haven’t posted the exact results because I was lazy and interest were low, but I can do that if you’re interested. (Tomorrow! I‘m in bed now)

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11 hours ago, Hiob said:

I did exactly that test. No difference fps in pancake whatsoever (in 1440p and in 4K), but between 20-25% better CPU frametimes in VR depending on the scene.

I haven’t posted the exact results because I was lazy and interest were low, but I can do that if you’re interested. (Tomorrow! I‘m in bed now)

Thanks, it might be interesting for others but don't go to any big effort for me. I haven't decided if I'm upgrading yet and don't even have VR!  What you've said would be enough to convince me to spend the extra on the X3D as I will inevitably try VR eventually, however, what puts me off a bit is that I've heard it runs quite a lot hotter than the 5900 so would probably cost more for better cooling also.

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6 minutes ago, mbits said:

Thanks, it might be interesting for others but don't go to any big effort for me. I haven't decided if I'm upgrading yet and don't even have VR!  What you've said would be enough to convince me to spend the extra on the X3D as I will inevitably try VR eventually, however, what puts me off a bit is that I've heard it runs quite a lot hotter than the 5900 so would probably cost more for better cooling also.

It runs hotter in certain conditions since it has only one die. You need a decent cooling for either of them. Keep in mind, that more temperature headroom leads to higher boost clocks. That's just how ryzen works. So I wouldn't be cheap on that.

More important than the temperature is what you are doing besides DCS. If you have any productive tasks in mind that properly benefit from multicore, I would take a 5900X. Besides very special use cases it is the far superior CPU and 100 Bucks less.

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On 6/19/2022 at 9:47 PM, BusPilot said:

Guys, I’m about to building a new rig, I got a credit to expend exclusively on a PC, veeery generous budget, so I’m not worried with price, because if I don’t spent the credit, the money is gone. I read the whole topic but I’m still can’t decide about the 5800X3D and i9 12900K, even with the AM5 about to be released, it worth go with 5800X3D? Or should I go with 12900K? Paired with a RTX 3090Ti. Any thoughts on specs?

I can't speak for the 5800X3D, but I'm loving the 12900KS rig that I just built with DDR5 memory.  Check around on this forum and others about the RTX3090Ti, however.  I recently tried helping someone with a 3090Ti who was having compatibility issues with his G2, and apparently that's an issue that has been reported elsewhere.  I have the non-Ti RTX3090, and it runs great with my G2.

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Intel has a LONG history of over-hyping new memory technology in order to sell motherboards.

 

I get that progress is progress :)...  But I've been playing the gaming hardware game for a LONG time.  They do the same with new sockets.  They say "well we need to make this new socket because "new stuff"...  but AMD does all sorts of new stuff and stays with the same sockets for more generations...  saving the hardware builder a lot of money over the life of a motherboard for very little performance cost.

That said...  I've used Intel for quite a long time because for probably the last decade AMD just didn't have the performance.  Ever since the older version of the Core2Duo before they yanked all the cache to get people to buy their more expensive chips up until my last system a while ago which was an LGA1155 I think.  For my last build I swapped over to an AM4 board.  Couldn't be happier with AMD and how they continue to treat their customers right.

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Thank you guys for the amazing answers! I’m leaning more to i9 12900K with RTX 3090ti. I have a quest 2 on my actual rig, i9 9900K + RTX 2080 non-ti and the results are completely terrible with VR. Minecraft graphics and many stuttering, growling sidewinder server is unplayable. So I was thinking in try the 5800X3D, but I like to play other games. Like Squad, arma 3, X-plane, MSFS2020 and call of duty, I’m not sure how would be building a complete new rig based on AM4 socket knowing that i couldn’t upgrade it in the future. Maybe Intel would be a best bet.

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Really a no-brainer, BusPilot.  Even though you would have an upgrade path (5900, 5950) on AM4, considering the age  of those CPU's vs what's available now and in the not distant future, you basically run out of runway right out the gate.  Reality is, a 3090, even in your current rig would/should convince you to go Intel at this juncture.

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3 hours ago, BusPilot said:

Thank you guys for the amazing answers! I’m leaning more to i9 12900K with RTX 3090ti. I have a quest 2 on my actual rig, i9 9900K + RTX 2080 non-ti and the results are completely terrible with VR. Minecraft graphics and many stuttering, growling sidewinder server is unplayable. So I was thinking in try the 5800X3D, but I like to play other games. Like Squad, arma 3, X-plane, MSFS2020 and call of duty, I’m not sure how would be building a complete new rig based on AM4 socket knowing that i couldn’t upgrade it in the future. Maybe Intel would be a best bet.

I currently run a q2 on a 3090 with 9900k and the graphics are fine. It runs well, the cpu can get bogged down in heavy scenarios but nothing too bad. I play engima in VR no worries! However I want more! so I will be changing to next gen AMD or Intel, reviews depending. So you could just upgrade your GPU and wait. I'm very interested in this thread and the cache improvements that AMD are bringing so it may may AM5 a good choice even if the 3D chips do not come in first release.

Then of course there is the 40 series Nvidia coming too.....

Overall I would wait completely.


Edited by Hoirtel
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8 hours ago, BusPilot said:

Thank you guys for the amazing answers! I’m leaning more to i9 12900K with RTX 3090ti. I have a quest 2 on my actual rig, i9 9900K + RTX 2080 non-ti and the results are completely terrible with VR. Minecraft graphics and many stuttering, growling sidewinder server is unplayable. So I was thinking in try the 5800X3D, but I like to play other games. Like Squad, arma 3, X-plane, MSFS2020 and call of duty, I’m not sure how would be building a complete new rig based on AM4 socket knowing that i couldn’t upgrade it in the future. Maybe Intel would be a best bet.

BusPilot, I was running a G2 on an 8700K and GTX2080Ti before I started doing any serious upgrades and DCS ran really well for me.  But, I don't do any flying on multi-player servers.  How does it run with single player?  If it also runs poorly on single player, try browsing the forum for some threads about tweaking performance.  I'm thinking that with the way you have things configured currently, you'll end up dumping a bunch of money into upgrading, and its still not going to run all that well for you and end up being a huge disappointment.  Lots of guys here with similar rigs to your current one that are getting good results.  Once you get it tweaked and running well on what you have, any hardware upgrades you do will just be a bonus. :drinks_cheers:

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11 hours ago, Slammin said:

Really a no-brainer, BusPilot.  Even though you would have an upgrade path (5900, 5950) on AM4, considering the age  of those CPU's vs what's available now and in the not distant future, you basically run out of runway right out the gate.  Reality is, a 3090, even in your current rig would/should convince you to go Intel at this juncture.

Your right about the upgrade-path for AM4. But with Intel you also mostly only have two gens of processors before you need a new mainboard because the socket has changed. In that respect I would be better to wait for Ryzen 7000 on AM5, since AMD supports its sockets longer than Intel. But if you plan to keep the same system for longer without upgrading, Intel right now could be the better choice. Still DDR5 and Z690-boards are still pretty expensive..

I just recently upgraded from a 5600x to a 5800x3D since I want to keep my system for longer and the 5800x3D seems to be the top of the line for AM4. Comparing to a 5600x I can only see in select situations (SC with full deck etc) a difference. The 5600x made a big difference over my old 9600K in those situations and now the 5800x3D adds a bit more to that.

Anyway, I think, now it is EDs turn to finally deliver some ugrade like multicore-support. I dont even dare say Vu.....

Why should we constantly invest in hardware to have a mediocre experience in DCS (especially in VR; 2D feels much better), if ED could alleviate this situation much more by finally delivering on their promised features from way back when.

BTW: my 5800x3D runs in idle pretty much as hot as my old 5600x at 30-50deg, during DCS up to 75deg (which is way hotter than the 5600x) and only reaches 90deg on prime95 26.6, where the CPU then clocks only at 4150mHz allcore. This with a minor adjustment in the cooler-curve of my Noctua D15s. Before in idle my system was practivally silent, now its only pretty quiet.

 


Edited by Wali763
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Regarding temperatures mine idles at 33 and normally peaks around 70 in DCS although this last couple of nights it's been shooting up to 80 but then the ambient has been 32+.

It's hotter than the 3600 @4.3 GHz but much, much more power. Hopefully AMD will allow future bios updates to be able to reduce vcore and better control thermals.


Edited by edmuss
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BusPilot, I was running a G2 on an 8700K and GTX2080Ti before I started doing any serious upgrades and DCS ran really well for me.  But, I don't do any flying on multi-player servers.  How does it run with single player?  If it also runs poorly on single player, try browsing the forum for some threads about tweaking performance.  I'm thinking that with the way you have things configured currently, you'll end up dumping a bunch of money into upgrading, and its still not going to run all that well for you and end up being a huge disappointment.  Lots of guys here with similar rigs to your current one that are getting good results.  Once you get it tweaked and running well on what you have, any hardware upgrades you do will just be a bonus. :drinks_cheers:

In single player it works ok, not great, but manageable. On heavy missions it start the stuttering. My actual rig is a Alienware Area 51m laptop, that’s why I can’t upgrade only the GPU, it runs on desktop parts, at least on paper and benchmark tests, but I’m getting a full refund from Dell, that’s why I must spend the 5.5K on hardware. And I can’t hold it for later do it, I must spend it until the end of this month.


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