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AMD 5800X3D, the new King for flight simulators?


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1 hour ago, edmuss said:

Regarding temperatures mine idles at 33 and normally peaks around 70 in DCS although this last couple of nights it's been shooting up to 80 but then the ambient has been 32+.

It's hotter than the 3600 @4.3 GHz but much, much more power. Hopefully AMD will allow future bios updates to be able to reduce vcore and better control thermals.

 

What cooling are you using?

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An old thermal right true spirit 140bw that I hacked the mounting plate to fit the am4 socket 😁

I don't have a case as such, the motherboard is mounted to an old case back tray that I cut up and screwed to the wall to save space.

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3 hours ago, edmuss said:

Regarding temperatures mine idles at 33 and normally peaks around 70 in DCS although this last couple of nights it's been shooting up to 80 but then the ambient has been 32+.

It's hotter than the 3600 @4.3 GHz but much, much more power. Hopefully AMD will allow future bios updates to be able to reduce vcore and better control thermals.

 

Try this if you're looking to reduce the 5800X3D temperatures by a few degrees:

How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner · GitHub

Works quite well

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Ah yes I've already done that one, got it set up on task scheduler but not checked to see if it's actually run each time😁

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11 minutes ago, edmuss said:

Ah yes I've already done that one, got it set up on task scheduler but not checked to see if it's actually run each time😁

Yes hard to be sure settings are applied at start up. I just check HWiNFO for tiny reduction in VID

and of course run a stress test and temperature should be a little lower

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Turns out that the task scheduler hadn't run and applied the undervolt, I have now triggered it to run every hour indefinitely 😄

Run a quick test on the syria A10 AG mission and the CPU has peaked at 68°C which is more like it.

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We're getting a little off topic, but I found that some 240mm AIOs weren't up to the task of keeping my 5800X at a reasonable temp, even at idle.  3600XT was quite easy to keep cool, as are the 5600Xs I've played with.  There's a large amount of current running through a very small area, and the actual CPU interface of some coolers apparently struggle to pull the heat away efficiently.  Spending time to set up some negative curves in PBO is well worthwhile, although it can be a little bit frustrating to perfect.

This has been a really good thread so far.  I'm still undecided on whether it's worthwhile to go from the 5800X to the 5800X3D just for VR, but it's been very informative.

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7 hours ago, Biggus said:

Spending time to set up some negative curves in PBO is well worthwhile, although it can be a little bit frustrating to perfect.

Be aware, that you can’t do that with a 5800X3D. AMD has restricted any kind of manual tuning of the 3D. Only way would be messing with BCLK, but that won’t lower the temps.

Also keep in mind that the poor heat dissipation of Ryzen is by design. Even a custom water cooling with two 560 rads won’t keep the X3D from reaching high eighties without a problem in certain workloads.

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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You can undervolt the 5800X3D using the tools linked to above, mine runs quite happily with -25 on all cores, it doesn't play ball with -30 and I've not taken time to go through each core one by one to find the lowest level yet.

I'd disagree about the cooling, with the undervolt my 140mm single fan heatsink keeps it below 70 in DCS, yes in prime 95 it's going to get toasty but that's completely the wrong work load for it.

edit: heres a quick screen grab from the start of a p95 blend run, yes the heat load at this point is low but it's sat at 50°C with 100% load.  The temperature will ramp up later in the run.  Ambient is currently 23°C.

null

image.png


Edited by edmuss
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34 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Be aware, that you can’t do that with a 5800X3D. AMD has restricted any kind of manual tuning of the 3D. Only way would be messing with BCLK, but that won’t lower the temps.

Also keep in mind that the poor heat dissipation of Ryzen is by design. Even a custom water cooling with two 560 rads won’t keep the X3D from reaching high eighties without a problem in certain workloads.

As @edmuss says, while you can't do it through the BIOS, you can with those tools.  Hopefully AMD will consider opening up the BIOS a little to allow it one day.

The very different experiences people seem to have with temperature control in my opinion simply comes down to the internal layout of the cooler block and the compromises many seem to make to accommodate a wide variety of socket designs.

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4 hours ago, Biggus said:

As @edmuss says, while you can't do it through the BIOS, you can with those tools.  Hopefully AMD will consider opening up the BIOS a little to allow it one day.

The very different experiences people seem to have with temperature control in my opinion simply comes down to the internal layout of the cooler block and the compromises many seem to make to accommodate a wide variety of socket designs.

Let‘s hope, you are right. I mean the 3D is more sensitive to voltage from what I‘ve read, but to lock it from Curve Optimizer per default (at least in the bios) is kind of pointless.

Regarding the temps it depends on the workload. I was strictly referring to default bios settings (with the exception of XMP) and the comparison between the 5900X and the 5800X3D on the same cooling. DCS isn‘t the „hottest“ cpu-application anyway, but in my A/B-Testing it ran considerably hotter, though consuming less power. This matches btw the tech-portal-coverage of its design. As far as I understood, the way the 3D-cache is connected (stacked) to the cores, it makes heat transfer difficult. In addition the extra cache seem to be relatively sensitive to heat. After all - that’s the reason, they prohibited overclocking for the 3D. (at least without workarounds).

Applying a negative offset in the CO is of course a great way to run the cpu cooler (and/or faster) and I tend to do that most of the time, but personally I don’t like using tools/background applications for this. I prefer the bios. 

But all that is not the reason I opted for the 5900. My main problem with the 3D is, that it’s a one-trick pony. I feel better off with the 5900X.

That‘s not meant to discourage anyone who is willing to dedicate his or her rig mainly to DCS (VR) or MSFS.

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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Well...  One trick pony means it does one trick only :).  

To me it seems the x3d does all the other tricks about as well as most other higher end processors...  but has an extra trick also...

 

But yeah it does seem pretty well aimed at "3D" 🙂


Edited by M1Combat

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2 hours ago, M1Combat said:

 

To me it seems the x3d does all the other tricks about as well as most other higher end processors...  

Considering the price - no, not at all. Not even close.

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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LOL...  OK Hiob.

I suspect you're getting caught up in meaningless FPS numbers or something but it's all good man.  You chose not to pick one up...  That's cool :).  If it doesn't sit super nice in your usage scenario then that's fine :)...  but this is the VR section and the x3D seems to do that "pretty well" to say the least :).

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On 6/13/2022 at 11:43 PM, Hiob said:

Ok, Results: (short preview, I will post detailed Results and procedures tomorrow later, when I find the time)

In a nutshell: - for Pancake-Players "Nay", for VR-Players "Yay"!

There were no fps-gains in 2D whatsoever. I tested DCS-4K-high-details, DCD-1440p-medium-details, Heaven in 4K, 1440p and 1920*1080.

In VR I tested Marianas in the Apache (-25% cpu-frametime average) and Huey in Incirlik(Syria) (-20% cpu-frametime average).

Good night!

 

@M1Combat Do you even read before you post? That's exactly what I was saying. It is a very good option, if your main/only concern is VR.

But don't expect to much apart from that, unless you play in rather low resolutions.

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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I do.  And what you said is that it's a one trick pony :).

I just disagree Hiob :).  It does all the other tricks pretty well...  but does DCS VR very well :).

Anyway...  it doesn't really matter :)...  It doesn't fit your usage scenario.  Great.  Don't buy one :).  Have fun :).

To my eye it looks to be well in the ballpark of all the other higher end CPU's for non DCS VR stuff...  I'm not saying it's the fastest thing ever in all usage scenarios...  I'm just trying to make the point that it's not really a one trick pony is all man 🙂

Nvidia RTX3080 (HP Reverb), AMD 3800x

Asus Prime X570P, 64GB G-Skill RipJaw 3600

Saitek X-65F and Fanatec Club-Sport Pedals (Using VJoy and Gremlin to remap Throttle and Clutch into a Rudder axis)

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6 minutes ago, mbits said:

For anyone still on the fence. There are rumours of a 5900X3D 😃

5600X3D as well in that rumour. I would like to believe it but seems unlikely with Zen4 around the corner and from a technical perspective. 

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Sweet...  just picked up a 3080 and will be grabbing a 5900x3d as well 🙂

 

Nvidia RTX3080 (HP Reverb), AMD 3800x

Asus Prime X570P, 64GB G-Skill RipJaw 3600

Saitek X-65F and Fanatec Club-Sport Pedals (Using VJoy and Gremlin to remap Throttle and Clutch into a Rudder axis)

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On 6/28/2022 at 7:11 PM, M1Combat said:

  I'm just trying to make the point that it's not really a one trick pony is all man 🙂

You should really carefully read again what my line of arguments was. You need to consider the price. Because at the time, a 5900X was cheaper and a 5950X was almost the same price.

And the only advantage the 3D has over those is a 20-25% drop in CPU-Frametimes in VR. In every other aspect - especially in multicore applications - those kicks the 3Ds ass big time.

Don't get me wrong - the 5800X3D is a very modern CPU. It will get done anything a typical user will throw at it. No question. But the only one thing where it will excel is VR*. In every other regard you will find much more performance for the same money or the same performance for considerable less money.

THAT is what I mean with "one trick pony".

I have no intend to keep you or anybody else from getting a 3D, and I don't want to downplay its unique and sophisticated design - but don't glorify it and be real on what its strength and weaknesses are.

(*and some other very special gaming scenarios. Most notable some artificially CPU-bound low-res scenarios)


Edited by Hiob

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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Reading the discussion here I think the "one trick pony" comment could simply be taken a little too literally.   It's not like the 3D can't do a decent job of non VR stuff, its just not its strength and there are better and even cheaper alternatives which excel at certain other tasks.  I also took it a bit too literally. To me a one trick pony is absolutely useless at anything else, not just worse in comparison.  I know what you mean though @Hiob


Edited by mbits
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39 minutes ago, mbits said:

Reading the discussion here I think the "one trick pony" comment could simply be taken a little too literally.   It's not like the 3D can't do a decent job of non VR stuff, its just not its strength and there are better and even cheaper alternatives which excel at certain other tasks.  I also took it a bit too literally. To me a one trick pony is absolutely useless at anything else, not just worse in comparison.  I know what you mean though @Hiob

 

Thank you... At least someone who gets me.... 😅

Nevertheless - it's not worth banging heads over anyway. Everybody is entitled to spend their money as they seem fit.

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"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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This looks interesting.

TL;DR:  MSI has a beta bios that apparently enables some PBO functions, probably most importantly being the ability to use Curve Optimizer.  I'm always loathe to update BIOS without really needing to do it, and I'm even less comfortable when that BIOS is in beta, but I thought that some of you guys might be interested.

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This can be done on any motherboard using software created by overclockers (PBO2 tuner or Project Hydra). It's not official AMD software, so use at your own risk. But I can confirm it works for me, lowering the core temps and raising the boost clock under heavy loads at the same time. 

https://github.com/PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/blob/main/README.md


Edited by some1
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I'm using the PBO2 tuner to undervolt mine by 25mV across the board and it generally keeps it below 60°C in DCS.  I have it set to run on a schedule on boot and re-apply every 30 minutes just to make sure 🙂

A bios solution would be a nice thing but I'd rather wait till it's relased and out of beta, it may be that AMD officially starts to support more bios tweaks for the X3D processors.

Ryzen7 7800X3D / RTX3080ti / 64GB DDR5 4800 / Varjo Aero / Leap Motion / Kinect Headtracking
TM 28" Warthog Deltasim Hotas / DIY Pendular Rudders / DIY Cyclic Maglock Trimmer / DIY Abris / TM TX 599 evo wheel / TM T3PA pro / DIY 7+1+Sequential Shifter / DIY Handbrake / Cobra Clubman Seat
Shoehorned into a 43" x 43" cupboard.

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