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AMD 5800X3D, the new King for flight simulators?


maxsin72

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I agree Hiob...  not worth banging heads over.  You're right :).

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On 7/3/2022 at 4:00 AM, mbits said:

For anyone still on the fence. There are rumours of a 5900X3D 😃

I’m about to pull the trigger on getting the 5800x3D but now I’m unsure if I should wait another month to see if they release a 5900x3D.

 

Can someone make an educated guess if the 5900x3D would make a meaningful difference in DCS vs the 5800x3D?

 

DCS VR is pretty much the only reason why I’m doing this upgrade so I don’t care about compute performance in other applications.

System: 7800X3D / Asus RTX 4090 OC / 64GB 3600mhz / Pimax Crystal / VKB GF3 Ultimate

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Depends on the GPU you're running mostly...  As well as where the 5800x3D would land you regarding CPU frametimes.

No need to have 80FPS frametimes vs. 75...  When neither are 90...  BUT...  you'll not know where you're at until you throw one in your system and just see for yourself.

 

One more thing...  I seem to recall in the article I read that the 5900x3D is RUMORED have even more L3 cache...


Edited by M1Combat

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17 minutes ago, M1Combat said:

Depends on the GPU you're running mostly...  As well as where the 5800x3D would land you regarding CPU frametimes.

No need to have 80FPS frametimes vs. 75...  When neither are 90...  BUT...  you'll not know where you're at until you throw one in your system and just see for yourself.

 

One more thing...  I seem to recall in the article I read that the 5900x3D is RUMORED have even more L3 cache...

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I’m currently running a 3090 and while I didn’t do any specific frame time testing, I can tell that the GPU currently isn’t utilized well in DCS just based on that it doesn’t get warm/hot like it does in other taxing games.

 

The thing that bothers me most in DCS VR is not even the fps, it’s the occasional micro stutters that I’m pretty sure are due to my current CPU.

System: 7800X3D / Asus RTX 4090 OC / 64GB 3600mhz / Pimax Crystal / VKB GF3 Ultimate

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There are a few reasons for micro stutters...  Largely because people call different things "micro-stutters" :).

If they are low frequency (good and smooth for a couple seconds, then a hitch...  repeating) then I would look into the USB hot swap setting... 

If they are more frequent low framerate style that's a bit more complex and very much depends on what you're seeing and when as well as your own perceptions in VR.  I also think they've recently brought the bug back that tanks performance in a few ways after you open the F10 map.

 

I'd say if you're already running a 3090 then look into what may be causing those micro-stutters (as well as defining exactly what you're calling micro-stutters) while you wait for the 5900x3D...  But...  I think it will be a couple months or so for the 5900...

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Considering, that DCS utilizes neither 8 cores nor 12. It doesn’t matter.

The 5800 doesn’t slow down (or accelerate) DCS in any way compared to a 5900X. 

All that matters to DCS (comparing apples to apples) is clock speed. 

But the 5900 will have an edge over the 5800 in real Multicore applications.

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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1 hour ago, Hiob said:

All that matters to DCS (comparing apples to apples) is clock speed. 

I would argue that isn't strictly true when it comes to the X3D. I saw a 25-30% uplift in GPU performance on low CPU load missions. This was switching from my 3600 to the 5800X3D, the GPU usage was at 95-98% before and the clock speeds have only increased by 100-150mhz. More heavily loaded CPU missions and it's by far and away much more powerful.

The 150mhz isn't going to give that much uplift to an already saturated GPU, I know there was an uplift from Ryzen3xxxx to Ryzen5xxx but still I don't think it's this alone. The L3 cache makes a big difference to the DCS engine.

edit: true test would be to have a downclocked 5800x on hand to compare.


Edited by edmuss
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6 minutes ago, edmuss said:

I would argue that isn't strictly true when it comes to the X3D. I saw a 25-30% uplift in GPU performance on low CPU load missions. This was switching from my 3600 to the 5800X3D, the GPU usage was at 95-98% before and the clock speeds have only increased by 100-150mhz. More heavily loaded CPU missions and it's by far and away much more powerful.

The 150mhz isn't going to give that much uplift to an already saturated GPU, I know there was an uplift from Ryzen3xxxx to Ryzen5xxx but still I don't think it's this alone. The L3 cache makes a big difference to the DCS engine.

edit: true test would be to have a downclocked 5800x on hand to compare.

 

To quote myself: „apples to apples“…. 

Does nobody care to read anymore? The Question was, will the 5900X3D have an edge over 5800X3D (in DCS). Answer - most likely not. (as the 5900 hasn‘t over the 5800X).

The 3000 Series have a completely different IPC. That doesn’t tell you much if you compare it to 5000 series.

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So by your logic I could have upgraded to a 5600 and still gained the 30% increase?

Arguably the clock speed of the 59X3D should be higher than the 58X3D so it should be faster in DCS? Granted the increase is probably minimal, agreed that the additional cores will make no difference to the current engine.

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6 minutes ago, edmuss said:

So by your logic I could have upgraded to a 5600 and still gained the 30% increase?

Arguably the clock speed of the 59X3D should be higher than the 58X3D so it should be faster in DCS? Granted the increase is probably minimal, agreed that the additional cores will make no difference to the current engine.

No.

The 5000X series is a different animal than the 3000X family. Mainly due to different IPCs.

The 5000X3D series (when it becomes a series) is a different animal than the 5000X series. Due to a different cache architecture and amount.

DCS profits from the additional cache under certain circumstances (mainly VR). But it wont profit from 50% more cores, that the 5900X3D will offer. (It will suffer from lower clock speeds though (but not noticeable).

Clear now?

 

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5900x3d is rumored to have more cache then 5800x3d, so this may not be an apples to apples comparison. M1Combat already pointed this out earlier.

It's a futile exercise to try to guess how the two will compare, when one doesn't have official specs yet.

Zyll @ TAW



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8 minutes ago, Zyll said:

5900x3d is rumored to have more cache then 5800x3d, so this may not be an apples to apples comparison. M1Combat already pointed this out earlier.

It's a futile exercise to try to guess how the two will compare, when one doesn't have official specs yet.

Zyll @ TAW


 

True, but if I‘m not mistaken, same applies to the none 3Ds.

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You state in one post that all DCS wants is clock speed. Then you go on to state that a 59X3D will be no faster than a 58X3D.

Given than historically the x9xx Ryzen CPUs have the highest clock speed of the series it stands to reason that the 9X3D will be (marginally) faster than the 8X3D. It is also expected to have more cache relative to the 5800/5900 non 3D.

Again without a direct CPU to CPU comparison no one can say for certain what the gains will be.


Edited by edmuss

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17 minutes ago, edmuss said:

You state in one post that all DCS wants is clock speed. Then you go on to state that a 59X3D will be no faster than a 58X3D.

Given than historically the x9xx Ryzen CPUs have the highest clock speed of the series it stands to reason that the 9X3D will be (marginally) faster than the 8X3D. It is also expected to have more cache relative to the 5800/5900 non 3D.

Again without a direct CPU to CPU comparison no one can say for certain what the gains will be.

 

100 or 200 MHz is probably nothing you will feel or notice. How the cache will impact performance - don't know.

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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  • 2 weeks later...
2 hours ago, pixie said:

Any news or educated guess on an hyptothetical 5600X3D ?

I believe this is the CPU we are all expecting.

Good question.  I wonder why they didn't choose the 5600X instead, actually.  To me, the 5800X would seem to be the worst one to start with.  I guess a quick review of the specs would answer that for me, but I'm lazy.  I do know I avoided the 5800X when I built my rig due to heat concerns though.


Edited by Slammin

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On 7/19/2022 at 12:16 AM, Slammin said:

Good question.  I wonder why they didn't choose the 5600X instead, actually.  To me, the 5800X would seem to be the worst one to start with.  I guess a quick review of the specs would answer that for me, but I'm lazy.  I do know I avoided the 5800X when I built my rig due to heat concerns though.

 

From what I know the 5800X3D chiplet is a server grade (EPIC) one. So best binned samples. Means all 8 cores perform well. A 5600X3D or an 5900X3D is unlikly due to the fact that the 5600 and 5900 use chiplets with diabled cores.

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11 minutes ago, DerFangzahn said:

From what I know the 5800X3D chiplet is a server grade (EPIC) one. So best binned samples. Means all 8 cores perform well. A 5600X3D or an 5900X3D is unlikly due to the fact that the 5600 and 5900 use chiplets with diabled cores.

The more likely reason is, that it is the most potent single chiplet processor in their portfolio. The 5800X3D is specifically marketed as a gaming cpu and competes against the 12900K - therefore a dual chiplet cpu like 5900X doesn't make sense as a first serve - and a 5600 doesn't make sense either (from a marketing pov).


Edited by Hiob

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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Just my 2 cents regarding the 5800X3D:

 

I recently upgraded to this processor from a 10700k that was clocked at 5ghz and while I didn't do any frame time benchmarks, I can say that I don't really notice any difference between both processors in DCS.

Situations that caused some stutters with the 10700k (i.e. large explosions), still cause stuttering with the 5800X3D.

 

However, I don't regret the purchase at all since the 5800X3D has been an absolute game changer in MSFS!


Edited by lax22

System: 7800X3D / Asus RTX 4090 OC / 64GB 3600mhz / Pimax Crystal / VKB GF3 Ultimate

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I am a little hesitant to upgrade from my 5800X. In game I’m experiencing stuttering in the F14 when flying close to objects such as the carrier or other planes. FPS on Caucasus is between 27-45. FPSVR shows that CPU time is higher than my GPU frametime with my 3080. 
when I stress test the CPU, it is unable to reach the posted 4.7 GHz overclocked. I have recently upgraded the cooling, and it is not thermally throttled. The max clock speed it reaches during prime95 test is 4.5ish GHz. This makes me think that there is some sort of limit built into the motherboard that is not allowing my CPU to reach the max clock speeds. Therefore, this might be a limiting factor in DCS. 
I’m concerned that even if I do the upgrade, with the limited clock speed I wouldn’t notice any improvement in FPS or the stutters. I am not sure if the increased cache would help me in this case. 
Any insight is much appreciated!

Alienware Aurora R10, Ryzen 5800X3D, RTX4080, 32GB RAM, Pimax Crystal, Winwing F18 throttle, VKB Gunfighter F14 Stick, VKB Modern Combat Grip, Logitech Rudder pedals, DOF Reality H3

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35 minutes ago, Dentedend10 said:

I am a little hesitant to upgrade from my 5800X. In game I’m experiencing stuttering in the F14 when flying close to objects such as the carrier or other planes. FPS on Caucasus is between 27-45. FPSVR shows that CPU time is higher than my GPU frametime with my 3080. 
when I stress test the CPU, it is unable to reach the posted 4.7 GHz overclocked. I have recently upgraded the cooling, and it is not thermally throttled. The max clock speed it reaches during prime95 test is 4.5ish GHz. This makes me think that there is some sort of limit built into the motherboard that is not allowing my CPU to reach the max clock speeds. Therefore, this might be a limiting factor in DCS. 
I’m concerned that even if I do the upgrade, with the limited clock speed I wouldn’t notice any improvement in FPS or the stutters. I am not sure if the increased cache would help me in this case. 
Any insight is much appreciated!

I can tell you going from a 5600X to a 5800X3D made a significant impact to frame rates.
Yes the 5600X when boosting clocked faster in GHz than the X3D, but that huge cache in the X3D is what is making all the difference in DCS.
If you do go for it, ensure you have a good cooling solution (they run hot) and don't expect to do any overclocking (they are mostly locked).
Expensive....but good!

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4 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

I’m going to build a new computer soon (for the first time in about 20 years 😬) and was going to use the gpu and cpu from the Alienware I bought last year, (3090 & 5900X). 
Would I be better off buying a 5800X3D?

If you plan on doing anything else with it than flight simming, or VR in particular…… most likely - No!

When you build a new potent PC today, you‘re not aiming for 1080p, I suppose? Mind, that all cpu-reviewer have to revert to low resolution to make the 5800X3D have any meaningful edge over more common cpus. Draw your own conclusions.


Edited by Hiob

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13 minutes ago, Hiob said:

If you plan on doing anything else with it than flight simming, or VR in particular…… most likely - No!

When you build a new potent PC today, you‘re not aiming for 1080p, I suppose? Mind, that all cpu-reviewer have to revert to low resolution to make the 5800X3D have any meaningful edge over more common cpus. Draw your own conclusions.

 

Thanks Hiob, the conclusion I’ve drawn from that is I’ll save my money. 😁 thanks again 👍

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49 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

Thanks Hiob, the conclusion I’ve drawn from that is I’ll save my money. 😁 thanks again 👍

Just a humble reminder, that my opinion is not universally shared around here. 😅 And my suggestion isn’t necessarily to save money, but to go for 5900x or 5950x instead.

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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