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AMD 5800X3D, the new King for flight simulators?


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5800X3D will help on CPU limited scenario, on GPU limited ones there will make no difference

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On 8/8/2022 at 4:50 AM, 5ephir0th said:

5800X3D will help on CPU limited scenario, on GPU limited ones there will make no difference

The info I've seen shows a clear (but small) improvement in GPU limited scenarios as well.

Not worth the cost...  but it's there.

Nvidia RTX3080 (HP Reverb), AMD 3800x

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Yeah I saw 25-30% increase in free flight where you're definitely GPU limited. Worth it from a zen3? Possibly not, definitely worth it from a zen2 though.

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You were GPU limited with a ZEN2?

You're saying if you are GPU limited...  Upgrading to an x3d will provide maybe 30%?

 

I feel I'm misunderstanding you.  My research shows 20-30% if you have a good GPU and were CPU limited, but only maybe 1-2% if you were already GPU limited.

Nvidia RTX3080 (HP Reverb), AMD 3800x

Asus Prime X570P, 64GB G-Skill RipJaw 3600

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In certain situations yes.

Ryzen5 3600@4.3 all core overclock, on free flight missions the GPU would run at 95-98% load with the CPU a few MS faster, obviously as soon as any significant AI/scripting got involved the CPU took a dump all over the GPU and dragged it kicking and screaming down.  Even in the lightly CPU loaded missions (A10 instant action for example) the framerates went up by about 15fps, when the scripting gets heavy the 5800X3D just shrugs it off and keeps it GPU bound still.  It really shines on the Syria cities, KA50 runway instant action over Aleppo would give 35-40 fps with the 3600 and 50-55 with the 5800X3D.

Yes I was pleasantly suprised 🙂

Note that my 3070 is reasonably overclocked (for a bog standard FE) and currently second fastest on the global 3Dmark firestrike results (in combination with the5800X3D); from what I understand, firestrike is the closest to representing DCS gpu performance.


Edited by edmuss

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OK that makes more sense but doesn't sound the same as what you said before.  It sounds to me like you're saying in this last post that your CPU/GPU combo was super well paired and both working hard until you were in a more heavily AI/Scripting situation, then with the old setup it would go CPU limited and tank...  But after the new CPU the new CPU keeps up.

 

Well that's still benefits in a CPU limited situation.  Not GPU :).

 

Sorry to belabor the point but I think it's dangerous to say "yeah even when you're GPU bound this CPU upgrade will give you 30%"...  because that's not really what happens unless you're "barely" GPU bound and it switches to CPU bound, then you see the benefits in the situations where you used to be CPU bound.  Which is what I would expect based on all other reports I've seen :).

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13 hours ago, M1Combat said:

It sounds to me like you're saying in this last post that your CPU/GPU combo was super well paired and both working hard until you were in a more heavily AI/Scripting situation, then with the old setup it would go CPU limited and tank... 

That was the case, obviously the 5800X3D has removed the CPU bottleneck but....

In the scenarios when the 3600 wasn't tanking and I was GPU bound (typically CPU 8-10ms, GPU 15-18ms or there about), the 5800X3D still lifted performance by 25-30%. Now my GPU is pretty much completely free of bottlenecks regarding the VR rendering (CPU time > GPU time).

I've only ever stated my experience of the change, how much difference there would have been compared to a regular 5800X I don't know. Similarly I don't know how much of higher levels GPU performance might have been unlocked.


Edited by edmuss

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  • 3 weeks later...

These charts compare performance running the same 11 minute segment of The Big Show mission 9 (huge bomber squadron, bombing, and then enemy intercepts show up). Identical everything, but with Ryzen 3900X in the first pair of fpsVR charts, and Ryzen 5800x3D in the second set. Other hardware: Asus Pro WS X570-ACE motherboard, 64 gb unbuffered ECC DDR4 @ 2800 CL20 (SK Hynix C-die), Radeon 6800XT reference, game on PCIe 4 NVME, Reverb G2. No upscaling or reprojection: just native resolution.

Notice how the frametime curve moved way to the left? Except for when all 80 bombers are dropping bombs, it's now GPU limited. The GPU is nearly always running at full tilt rather than waiting on the CPU. The improved smoothness is unreal, this upgrade far exceeded my expectations.

 

FrametimesDCS-BigShow9_benchmark-3900X-6800XT.png

UsageDCS-BigShow9_benchmark-3900X-6800XT.png

FrametimesDCS-BigShow9_benchmark-5800X-6800XT.png

UsageDCS-BigShow9_benchmark-5800X-6800XT.png

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  • 4 weeks later...

You know, reading this thread, it occurs to me...

If DCS hold up is draw calls, and this is the main thing Vulkan etc improves on, this 5800x3d is probably indicative of the kind of improvement we can expect. In some scenarios, nothing. In other scenarios 25-30%. Very case specific.

Regardless, who knows when that will happen, so I went ahead and returned the 5800x I had and ordered a 5800x3d instead 😛 I won't be upgrading again for at least 5-6 years, so might as well go for gold now.

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Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2

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So, if I am building a new PC in these 2 months, should I get this over i7 12700K?  I am looking at the benchmarks, but I cannot draw a conclusion.

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1 hour ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

So, if I am building a new PC in these 2 months, should I get this over i7 12700K?  I am looking at the benchmarks, but I cannot draw a conclusion.

In a new build, no.

Personally I'd use a 7xxx with DDR5 and upgrade the CPU to an x3D at a later date if they prove to be as transformative for DCS as the 5800x3D has proven to be.

If you're already on AM4 and not intending to upgrade board and ram for the foreseeable future (your CPU turn around time) then I'd say yes.

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Well, the 7xxx is crazy in terms of £££, as the tests are pouring in. It requires DDR5 no less. My question is about the choice between 5800x3D vs i7 127000K, not 7xxx.  Thank you.

VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM)

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29 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Well, the 7xxx is crazy in terms of £££, as the tests are pouring in. It requires DDR5 no less. My question is about the choice between 5800x3D vs i7 127000K, not 7xxx.  Thank you.

 Depends on what you've got already. I'm upgrading from a 6700k. I don't intend to go to the first gen of a whole new architechure with the associated teething that usually entails. If you're doing it ''in a few months'' and money isn't an object, it may be advisable to do the next gen as everything is coming out right now. If you're more bargain oriented and coming from obsolete gear, as I currently am, and are interested in VR with a high end GPU, I think this thread is conclusive that the x3d makes a substantial difference.

So, tldr version

VR? High end GPU (3080ti+)? Currently obsolete?

If the answer to all three questions is yes, then the 5800x3d is for you. If the answer to any of them is no, then it is not ''for you''.


Edited by Mars Exulte
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Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2

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Well if you're building a new system with a 12700k then I guess you'd need new motherboard anyway and the only thing you'd be able to carry over would be the ram.
The 7600x is 300, the 12700 is 350 and slower, the 5800x3D is 440.

edit: I put the 5800x3D in because it's going to extend the life of my current build for a good few years yet and I was fortunate to be able to make the upgrade and not be massively out of pocket; if you have AM4 already (and not a 5800x/5900x) then go for it.


Edited by edmuss
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TM 28" Warthog Deltasim Hotas / DIY Pendular Rudders / DIY Cyclic Maglock Trimmer / DIY Abris / TM TX 599 evo wheel / TM T3PA pro / DIY 7+1+Sequential Shifter / DIY Handbrake / Cobra Clubman Seat
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Sorry this was my thread:

My plan is getting a new rig to replace my gaming laptop in November (Cyber Monday!) and I am building from scratch. Originally I was aiming at 12rh Gen i7 12700K, until I come across this thread.

And:

  1. As my handle suggests, I fly in VR almost all the time, Quest 2 now and may be G2 when it is cheaper than the Quest 2. 🙂
  2. Locked onto a RTX 3090 Ti, probably a MSI one as EVGA is way too expensive, if I can find one.
  3. My current gaming laptop runs on 11th I7 and yes, you can call it obsolete.  
  4. Of course, I do not have unlimited budget. 😞

Edited by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

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From how I see it, the 5800x3D works very well in DCS (and other heavily CPU dependant titles) despite having a signifcantly lower clock speed than it's intel competitors.

The 5800x3D was basically a tech demo to prove that monster L3 works (for a specific usage case), the 7xxx have hugely upped the clock speeds over 5xxx and there is promise of x3D chips on the near horizon (I have read November?).  The 12700k is coming up to a year old and is shortly to be superceded by 13th gen, you could always upgrade the 12700k to a 13700k or similar later down the line.

Given AMDs track record with socket type longevity (AM4 was launched 6 years ago now and is still in use) for future proofing it would make sense to switch to AM5 and a 7xxx CPU; hopefully the support for AM5 lasts as long as AM4 did - given that AM4 was DDR4 and AM5 is DDR5 I would suspect that it will do.  Historically, intels CPUs are released on a tick/tock cycle, every tick release is a generally on a smaller process with a jump in performance and every tock is then a die shrink for efficiency and power with less of a jump.  Both the 12th (tick) and 13th (tock) are on the LGA1700 socket and I would hazard a guess that 14th gen will be a new socket entirely again - the future proofing is nothing on the AM4 socket lifecycle.

I would still stand by the 7600x/7800x route for now and slot an x3D in later if you're struggling to feed the GPU 🙂

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The 7xxx CPU review videos are out and yes, they all use DDR5 which are more expensive, and faster of course. But I don't see anything related for sale here in the UK, and I guess it is because this is the UK.

If I am to update in 3 or 5 years' time, it will be a completely new MoBo, at least, as I would project the tech by then, if there would still be by then, would be totally different and I personally may not wish to stick with the setup.

Having a CPU which beats the crap out of 12th Gen i9K with less heat, less power draw and less price, it is very tempting but it is a little more expensive than the i7...

Let's see what happen in 2 month's time. 🙂

VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM)

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc9BDi-STaqgWsjNiHbW0fA

My simple missions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/284071-vr-flight-guy-in-pj-pants-simple-missions/

NSRI - National Strategy Research Institution, a fictional organisation based on wordplay of Strategic Naval Research Institution (SNRI), a fictional institution appears in Mobile Suit Gundam UC timeline.

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27 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

The 7xxx CPU review videos are out and yes, they all use DDR5 which are more expensive, and faster of course. But I don't see anything related for sale here in the UK, and I guess it is because this is the UK.

I'd keep an eye on ocuk, they'll likely have them in as soon as anyone else 🙂

Yeah, being in the UK sort of sucks with the current brexit/tory/recessi on/cost of living BS 😞

edit: there are many place much worse off than us though!


Edited by edmuss

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TM 28" Warthog Deltasim Hotas / DIY Pendular Rudders / DIY Cyclic Maglock Trimmer / DIY Abris / TM TX 599 evo wheel / TM T3PA pro / DIY 7+1+Sequential Shifter / DIY Handbrake / Cobra Clubman Seat
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Hey, no worries, will keep an eye on OCUK. Anyway, it is rather said that 5800x3D was out in less than half a year and then it is "outdated". 

VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM)

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc9BDi-STaqgWsjNiHbW0fA

My simple missions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/284071-vr-flight-guy-in-pj-pants-simple-missions/

NSRI - National Strategy Research Institution, a fictional organisation based on wordplay of Strategic Naval Research Institution (SNRI), a fictional institution appears in Mobile Suit Gundam UC timeline.

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I think there was a rumour of a 5600x3D but I could have been imagining it 😄

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TM 28" Warthog Deltasim Hotas / DIY Pendular Rudders / DIY Cyclic Maglock Trimmer / DIY Abris / TM TX 599 evo wheel / TM T3PA pro / DIY 7+1+Sequential Shifter / DIY Handbrake / Cobra Clubman Seat
Shoehorned into a 43" x 43" cupboard.

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I doubt that they will bring any further 3Ds to their 5000 lineup. That would potentially cannibalize their 7000s sales, wouldn't it?

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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5 hours ago, Hiob said:

I doubt that they will bring any further 3Ds to their 5000 lineup. That would potentially cannibalize their 7000s sales, wouldn't it?

Very likely. But it also might entice people to upgrade their AM4 CPU's when they otherwise wouldn't be inclined to do so because of the expense of adopting Zen 4. I.e., new CPU, motherboard, RAM, and maybe power supply.

That's how they got me to replace my 5600X with the 5800X3D, and I am very satisfied with the results.

Edit: FYI I fly exclusively in VR if that makes a difference to you.


Edited by Cab
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3 hours ago, Cab said:

Very likely. But it also might entice people to upgrade their AM4 CPU's when they otherwise wouldn't be inclined to do so because of the expense of adopting Zen 4. I.e., new CPU, motherboard, RAM, and maybe power supply.

That's how they got me to replace my 5600X with the 5800X3D, and I am very satisfied with the results.

How much change did you see in DCS with the bump up to 5800X3D?  I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to spend the extra 500 and get a 7700X.

5800X3d, 32GB DDR4@3400, 6800 xt, Reverb G2, Gunfighter/TMWH

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6 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Hey, no worries, will keep an eye on OCUK. Anyway, it is rather said that 5800x3D was out in less than half a year and then it is "outdated". 

AMD 7xxx are Avail now at OCUK. The CPU prices are more or less close to their respective strata, but the Moro prices are horrible…. Sorry for OT


Edited by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants
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VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM)

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc9BDi-STaqgWsjNiHbW0fA

My simple missions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/284071-vr-flight-guy-in-pj-pants-simple-missions/

NSRI - National Strategy Research Institution, a fictional organisation based on wordplay of Strategic Naval Research Institution (SNRI), a fictional institution appears in Mobile Suit Gundam UC timeline.

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