Mach Cone and Ultra-Low-Altitude Water Effects

[Rex]

I couldn't mix words in with the pictures for some reason.

Anyway, I know it's a lot to ask, but those would be cool if at all possible ... someday.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Rex

[Mike Force Team]

Yes, please add the mach cone and ultra-low-altitude water effects.  In the Top Gun 2:  Maverick, there is a scene in a movie trailer where Tom Cruise flies over a guard shack near a military base and the people experience the "whoosh" from the F/A-18 flying by.  The water effects would be great to see when flying at 100 feet above the ocean going supersonic.

MFT

[cfrag]

Hmmm. Not to be picky, but that first image is not a "Mach Cone". That image depicts condensation forming when the local pressure (and therefore temperature) drops due to wing dynamics in humid air. A "Mach Cone" is a (conical) pressure wave-front that exists the entire time that a body moves through air/gas with supersonic speed. I seem to dimly remember that I've seen some condensation effects modelled on the Bug, so it may be in the game already. 

IIRC low-alt water effect is already present in DCS, will have to check. 

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by cfrag

[Mike Force Team]

The ultra-low water effects would also look great when following subsonic anti-ship missles while flying towards their intended targets.

MFT

[Tank50us]

10 hours ago, Mike Force Team said:

The ultra-low water effects would also look great when following subsonic anti-ship missles while flying towards their intended targets.

MFT

Except they're so small they produce almost no cone at all, so odds are they'd still be hard to see

[G.J.S]

You don’t always get a condensation ‘flash’ when passing Mach, it’s very dependant on the right set of atmospheric conditions being present.

And the water disturbance created at low level - may look impressive, but all you are doing is shouting at the enemy “AIM HERE!”.

[draconus]

On 4/18/2022 at 1:01 PM, cfrag said:

low-alt water effect is already present in DCS

Yes, it is. Above the ground too.

[Mike_Romeo]

The JF-17 already got a mach cone

 

[Mike Force Team]

@Mike_Romeo I wanted the sonic cone to appear behind the jet when flying above the ocean at low altitudes.  Thanks for showing the sonic cone on the JF-17.

MFT

 

[Rex]

On 4/19/2022 at 4:19 AM, draconus said:

Yes, it is. Above the ground too.

I've never seen this in the F/A-18, and I've gone pretty low, which planes have you observed it with?

[Rex]

On 4/18/2022 at 4:01 AM, cfrag said:

Hmmm. Not to be picky, but that first image is not a "Mach Cone". That image depicts condensation forming when the local pressure (and therefore temperature) drops due to wing dynamics in humid air. A "Mach Cone" is a (conical) pressure wave-front that exists the entire time that a body moves through air/gas with supersonic speed. I seem to dimly remember that I've seen some condensation effects modelled on the Bug, so it may be in the game already. 

IIRC low-alt water effect is already present in DCS, will have to check. 

 

 

Fair enough, I've heard it called all manner of things, and I was using the colloquial term I've heard for it, I kind of figured it wasn't the strictly-technical one ... which why I posted a photo.  That said, I feel like I've only seen that form in the transonic region and higher.  Are you saying that the "cone" is present even when the condensation is not, and can occur at any speed?  What would you call the phenomenon that's pictured?  Is the condensation in the mach cone?

Edited April 28, 2022 by Rex

[cfrag]

17 minutes ago, Rex said:

Are you saying that the "cone" is present even when the condensation is not,

Yes. And Google is your friend.

 

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Rex said:

I've never seen this in the F/A-18, and I've gone pretty low, which planes have you observed it with?

Done it in the 14 and 15 but it should be for all aircraft. You have to get reaaaly low, like 3 ft or so, not sustainable safely - partly because you're flying in external view to see it.

[Wrcknbckr]

On 4/18/2022 at 1:01 PM, cfrag said:

Hmmm. Not to be picky, but that first image is not a "Mach Cone". That image depicts condensation forming when the local pressure (and therefore temperature) drops due to wing dynamics in humid air. A "Mach Cone" is a (conical) pressure wave-front that exists the entire time that a body moves through air/gas with supersonic speed. I seem to dimly remember that I've seen some condensation effects modelled on the Bug, so it may be in the game already. 

IIRC low-alt water effect is already present in DCS, will have to check. 

 

 

Well, in essence it is still a Mach cone, just smaller and local. Even when flying subsonic there are local areas of supersonic speed (due to airfoil curvature) that end in a shock, with the phenomena that you described so well. That's what defines the transonic speed region; if anywhere on the aircraft you find supersonic speeds while still flying subsonic.

[Rex]

On 4/27/2022 at 11:07 PM, draconus said:

Done it in the 14 and 15 but it should be for all aircraft. You have to get reaaaly low, like 3 ft or so, not sustainable safely - partly because you're flying in external view to see it.

Cool, will give it a try, thanks for the heads up.

On 4/27/2022 at 10:24 PM, cfrag said:

Yes. And Google is your friend.

 

 

Certainly not the same Google that returns the attached as the first image for the term "Mach Cone"?

No, they're not MY friend at all.

[cfrag]

8 hours ago, Rex said:

Certainly not the same Google that returns the attached as the first image for the term "Mach Cone"?

No, they're not MY friend at all.

 

Yes - while Google is your friend for finding content, much of that content isn't. Corroborate it with other sources before accepting it, especially if it seems to agree with your preconceived notions. If you google images for 'viking helmet', you may come to the conclusion that Vikings in combat of the days predominantly used helmets with horns attached. They didn't. Don't trust the results.

So yes, my apologies for not adding '... and distrust the results'; The internet can't be trusted. Let's look at it positively: it's a good thing that you found this out on a benign topic.

Imagine if you went down the rabbit hole with one of the standard, highly dangerous internet traps: anti-vaxxers, 9/11 truthers, QAnon, JFK assasination, moon landings, flat earth, religions. You got lucky

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by cfrag