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Any Updates on Naval Assets?


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I've said it multiple times but I honestly think the best way to get the naval deficit fixed is for ED to start work on Naval modules. I'm not sure if we would be better off with multi-class modules, single class modules or a mixture of both. 

DCS :Fleet Ops would be the best option, for the consumer. However I don't know if this approach could produce anything beyound combined Arms at Sea.

The problem with a strictly single module approach like DCS :Iowas or the like is you could end up with a few highly detailed modules of famous ships that have a lot of information about them while lesser known ships are just sitting there with 1990s modeling. This could be the most expensive option for the consumer.

Then we have the possibility of themed multi-ship modules. Where you get a few ship classes similar to flaming cliffs, with improvements to the damage modeling and overall details.

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22 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

Amphibious and Submarine warfare are two areas Eagle Needs to work on. I think they out of the two areas they need to focus on amphibious warfare the most. We have two Normandy maps, so recreating the largest amphibious assault in history should be a thing. Also I think supporting a landing would be a great mission in the Hornet and Harrier. As well as the upcoming A-6 module and any Naval F-4 module.

Amphibious warfare for sure. Like the game actually begin able to support it in any meaningful way. But I think they should probably focus of surface warfare first. Like actually giving the shapes an Ai this helicopters and aircraft have. Giving them more destroyble components. Like the freaking radar. And maybe the engines. Give them proper counter measures. And again an Ai that can actually engage with other ships, can turn so its defensive weapons are unmasked, and doesn't have to have its intercept completely calculated out in the ME. All of that would be great since we can actually fight ships. 

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my pet peeve with the current naval assets is:

- no damage modeling

- extremely difficult/impossible to destroy/inflict any damage whatsoever

Because of it I completely ignore them in any mission hosted on any server. There's no gratification whatsoever in fighting them. They are simply static undestructable objects and any mission objectives against them are completely pointless.

My simple ask was to introduce a "game" damage model for them at least for now. Add a modifiable "hardness" or "ruggedness" or "strength to them so the mission maker can include them in the achievable objectives, etc.

DCS is a sandbox. Give us this sandboxness in the naval warfare as well.

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1 hour ago, FlankerKiller said:

Amphibious warfare for sure. Like the game actually begin able to support it in any meaningful way. But I think they should probably focus of surface warfare first. Like actually giving the shapes an Ai this helicopters and aircraft have. Giving them more destroyable components. Like the freaking radar. And maybe the engines. Give them proper counter measures. And again an Ai that can actually engage with other ships, can turn so its defensive weapons are unmasked, and doesn't have to have its intercept completely calculated out in the ME. All of that would be great since we can actually fight ships. 

As the dude who keeps posting about DCS :Fleet  Ops and saying we need ship modules I'd agree we need all of these things. However I think the first thing Eagle needs to work on in regards to ships, would be to edit payload, cargo and supplies, as I think it could be done faster though ideally Eagle would work on both aspects. 

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9 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:


plus the Kuznetsov 2017 (yeah, a paid one), and the 4-5 ships added by the WW2 assets pack  … also, not by ED, but some third parties have added ships to the game, that can be used for free, like the Tarawa by Razbam, the Forrestal by Heatblur and the Chinese warships by Deka.

Ah, yes, I admit I totally slept on the WW2 ships, as I don't have the asset pack myself.

3 hours ago, upyr1 said:

Submarines Some attack and cruise missile submarines would be nice. 

 

That is one I definitely disagree with. We have a surprising number of submarines as is, which is irksome considering it's the ship class that a player in DCS - predominantly still a flight simulator - has the least possible interaction with. Don't get me wrong, the Kilo has its place and missions about attacking submarines in harbour aren't bad, but most of the submarines basically spend 90% of their time submerged and thus in a place I can neither see them, nor detect them, nor involve them in any fight, as torpedoes are only a thing in DCS:WW2.

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38 minutes ago, Kang said:

That is one I definitely disagree with. We have a surprising number of submarines as is, which is irksome considering it's the ship class that a player in DCS - predominantly still a flight simulator - has the least possible interaction with. Don't get me wrong, the Kilo has its place and missions about attacking submarines in harbour aren't bad, but most of the submarines basically spend 90% of their time submerged and thus in a place I can neither see them, nor detect them, nor involve them in any fight, as torpedoes are only a thing in DCS:WW2.

We don't have any blue for submarines. We also need improved sumarine warfare especially in DCS : WWII

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5 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

We don't have any blue for submarines. We also need improved sumarine warfare especially in DCS : WWII

We dont know what new assets can be build to WW2 Assets pack yet, but them has no stopped, and continue develop. I dont expected yet new submarine warfare into DCS, that require some core funtionalities implement first to make someone funtional.

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3 hours ago, peachmonkey said:

my pet peeve with the current naval assets is:

- no damage modeling

- extremely difficult/impossible to destroy/inflict any damage whatsoever

Because of it I completely ignore them in any mission hosted on any server. There's no gratification whatsoever in fighting them. They are simply static undestructable objects and any mission objectives against them are completely pointless.

My simple ask was to introduce a "game" damage model for them at least for now. Add a modifiable "hardness" or "ruggedness" or "strength to them so the mission maker can include them in the achievable objectives, etc.

DCS is a sandbox. Give us this sandboxness in the naval warfare as well.

I think the best toy to bring to the sand box would be ship modules that address these issues and introduce another element of game play

13 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

We dont know what new assets can be build to WW2 Assets pack yet, but them has no stopped, and continue develop. I dont expected yet new submarine warfare into DCS, that require some core funtionalities implement first to make someone funtional.

Do you think we'll be seeing some battleships anytime soon? I'd love to have the USS Texas shell normandy 

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48 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

I think the best toy to bring to the sand box would be ship modules that address these issues and introduce another element of game play

Do you think we'll be seeing some battleships anytime soon? I'd love to have the USS Texas shell normandy 

None confirmed about yet, a battleship require a big rework on the land / sea based targeting, weapons effects and dispersion, and AAW warfare systems.

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40 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

None confirmed about yet, a battleship require a big rework on the land / sea based targeting, weapons effects and dispersion, and AAW warfare systems.

I really hope to get the 1980s Iowas in DCS core soon 

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1 hour ago, upyr1 said:

I think the best toy to bring to the sand box would be ship modules that address these issues and introduce another element of game play

sure, that'd be ideal but how long would that take?

I feel that ED is hesitant to introduce 'weak' damage modeling due to the possible negative PR in the form of "hey, look, I can destroy a cruiser with a single 500kg bomb, soo realistic lol.." vs. the current model of "u want to kill a ship? Tough <profanity> bro!", which is in my opinion anti-consumer (lol, for me personally), because I WANT to destroy them but I simply can't.

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10 minutes ago, Mike Force Team said:

I know ED at least reads the forum responses. ED is looking to hire people. This is likely an implied response to our requests, which could lead to the naval assets being improved. 

MFT

ED always has hire peoples by some years ago about your ED Carrer Jobs page. Actually has none talk about build a "sea team" or a naval specialist developer into ED.

 


Edited by Silver_Dragon
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4 hours ago, peachmonkey said:

sure, that'd be ideal but how long would that take?

I feel that ED is hesitant to introduce 'weak' damage modeling due to the possible negative PR in the form of "hey, look, I can destroy a cruiser with a single 500kg bomb, soo realistic lol.." vs. the current model of "u want to kill a ship? Tough <profanity> bro!", which is in my opinion anti-consumer (lol, for me personally), because I WANT to destroy them but I simply can't.

I think the real issue is that damage in real life can be rather complex, for example the USS Stark and RFS Moscow. The Stark was a Oliver Perry Class  frigate which took two missile hits and was returned to service while the Moscow which supposedly took two missile hits is at the bottom of the Black Sea. The crew's ability to preform damage control was a big factor in the difference. 

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Hopefully there will be a huge increase in naval assets, arriving in…???

 

as a quick refresher, and caveat that all / none / some may appear…

Invincible class carrier 

Centaur class carrier

Colossus class light fleet carrier

Brooklyn class light cruiser

Type 42 DD

County class DD

Alan M Sumner class DD

Leander class frigate

Rothesay class frigate

Type 21 frigate

Type 22 frigate

Drummond class corvette

Castle class patrol ship

Cabo San Antonio LST

Sir / Round Table class LSL

Fearless class LPD??

Type 209 SSK

Balao SSK

Oberon SSK

+ various merchant ships…

 

… that’s a long list, and easily seen as way optimistic 🤞👍

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by rkk01
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18 hours ago, upyr1 said:

As the dude who keeps posting about DCS :Fleet  Ops and saying we need ship modules I'd agree we need all of these things. However I think the first thing Eagle needs to work on in regards to ships, would be to edit payload, cargo and supplies, as I think it could be done faster though ideally Eagle would work on both aspects. 

I have to be careful I'm really close to getting banned from posting. But unless ground combat improves dramatically with the addition of the Mi-24, and AH-64, then there is no way in hell I would buy a ship module on faith that ED would use the proceeds to actually fix, and improve the navel warfare side of the simulator.

But yes I truly wish they would give ships some love. Letting you edit what weapons are carried, or what kind of cargo would be a good start. 


Edited by FlankerKiller
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16 hours ago, upyr1 said:

I think the best toy to bring to the sand box would be ship modules that address these issues and introduce another element of game play

Do you think we'll be seeing some battleships anytime soon? I'd love to have the USS Texas shell normandy 

+1

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6 hours ago, FlankerKiller said:

I have to be careful I'm really close to getting banned from posting. But unless ground combat improves dramatically with the addition of the Mi-24, and AH-64, then there is no way in hell I would buy a ship module on faith that ED would use the proceeds to actually fix, and improve the navel warfare side of the simulator.

But yes I truly wish they would give ships some love. Letting you edit what weapons are carried, or what kind of cargo would be a good start. 

 

I've always figured that if Eagle were to do Naval modules they would have to start with things like damage models and the like first, with the expectation they will make their money back when the module hits the store. ISTM that they are focused on aircraft since that is where they make their money and everything else is secondary. 

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14 hours ago, rkk01 said:

Hopefully there will be a huge increase in naval assets, arriving in…???

 

as a quick refresher, and caveat that all / none / some may appear…

Invincible class carrier 

Centaur class carrier

Colossus class light fleet carrier

Brooklyn class light cruiser

Type 42 DD

County class DD

Alan M Sumner class DD

Leander class frigate

Rothesay class frigate

Type 21 frigate

Type 22 frigate

Drummond class corvette

Castle class patrol ship

Cabo San Antonio LST

Sir / Round Table class LSL

Fearless class LPD??

Type 209 SSK

Balao SSK

Oberon SSK

+ various merchant ships…

 

… that’s a long list, and easily seen as way optimistic 🤞👍

 

 

 

 

 

 

With no doubt that list will be available when SA Map '82 comes out, in fact there are renders of several of them.

AD ASTRA PER ASPERA

DCS: Flaming Cliffs 3 - DCS: Yak-52 - DCS: M-2000C - DCS: F-16C Viper - DCS: A-10C II Tank Killer - DCS: F/A-18C Hornet - DCS: AV-8B Night Attack V/STOL - DCS: Supercarrier -

DCS: Mi-24P Hind - DCS: AH-64D Apache - DCS: Syria - DCS: Persian Gulf - DCS: Caucasus - DCS: Marianas - DCS: South Atlantic

Wishlist #1: Ground crew, vehicles and support equipment on busy Air Base platforms. Wishlist #2: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk (early series)

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On 4/21/2022 at 1:19 AM, rkk01 said:

Hopefully there will be a huge increase in naval assets, arriving in…???

 

as a quick refresher, and caveat that all / none / some may appear…

Invincible class carrier 

Centaur class carrier

Colossus class light fleet carrier

Brooklyn class light cruiser

Type 42 DD

County class DD

Alan M Sumner class DD

Leander class frigate

Rothesay class frigate

Type 21 frigate

Type 22 frigate

Drummond class corvette

Castle class patrol ship

Cabo San Antonio LST

Sir / Round Table class LSL

Fearless class LPD??

Type 209 SSK

Balao SSK

Oberon SSK

+ various merchant ships…

 

… that’s a long list, and easily seen as way optimistic 🤞👍

 

 

 

On 4/21/2022 at 4:08 PM, SkorpioN1606689188 said:

With no doubt that list will be available when SA Map '82 comes out, in fact there are renders of several of them.

I'm looking forward to the South Atlantic map, hopefully Eagle will spend some time to give naval assets an upgrade.  I figure here are some imporvments I want them to make.

first naval aviation

cyclic operations  - can't be done well. The list here

  • Fix the refuel rearm waypoint on ships
  • Allow an option to assign a waypoint relative to the ship.
  • replace a flight as it runs low on fuel

Ships

improve the old models,

improve the damage model

add more ship 

 

 

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1 hour ago, upyr1 said:

I'm looking forward to the South Atlantic map, hopefully Eagle will spend some time to give naval assets an upgrade.  I figure here are some imporvments I want them to make.

first naval aviation

cyclic operations  - can't be done well. The list here

  • Fix the refuel rearm waypoint on ships
  • Allow an option to assign a waypoint relative to the ship.
  • replace a flight as it runs low on fuel

Ships

improve the old models,

improve the damage model

add more ship 

 

 

+1 To all these requests.

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On 4/20/2022 at 10:20 PM, peachmonkey said:

sure, that'd be ideal but how long would that take?

I feel that ED is hesitant to introduce 'weak' damage modeling due to the possible negative PR in the form of "hey, look, I can destroy a cruiser with a single 500kg bomb, soo realistic lol.." vs. the current model of "u want to kill a ship? Tough <profanity> bro!", which is in my opinion anti-consumer (lol, for me personally), because I WANT to destroy them but I simply can't.

That's probably people basing ship damages on SINKEX exercises which have ships in their most survivable configurations minus damage control and what are basically flukes (like the IRIS Sahand), even leading to myths that AShMs can't sink ships.

But the damage model needs to be way higher fidelity and account for things like fire-propagation and damage control.

21 hours ago, upyr1 said:

I'm looking forward to the South Atlantic map, hopefully Eagle will spend some time to give naval assets an upgrade.

They probably won't any time soon I'm afraid, so far there's maybe some improvements coming to ship physics, but still kinda ambiguous what it'll consist of (they spoke about ship motions in a newsletter, but not sure if it'll just be tuning of the current system, which is randomised rehearsed motions with a magnitude dependent on wind speed, as opposed to having ships actually interact with the water, to the tune of the Silent Hunter series or Cold Waters..

21 hours ago, upyr1 said:

Ships

improve the old models,

improve the damage model

add more ship

And drastically improve the damage modelling...

And the AI...

And the sensor modelling...

And the weapons and weapon modelling...

And logistics...

And facilitation of amphibious operations...

 

Hell, I might as well just say that almost every single aspect of DCS' naval aspect could do with a major overhaul.

2 hours ago, Kang said:

If you expect naval assets from the South Atlantic map you are technically giving up on ED's effort and banking on Razbam doing a couple ships.

There is an asset pack planned, which will include multiple ships, I don't have a list but last I checked it was reasonably comprehensive.

There's already Sea Dart and Sea Cat models.


Edited by Northstar98
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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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