Since ED gives so many Rudder options...

[Orwell]

Why not give a rudder option akin to the Huey and every other heli in the sim?
As of now, I don't know what's going on, but the anti-torque pedals in <profanity> module are totally insane. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Orwell

[sirrah]

Perhaps it's just me, but I don't understand what you are saying. 

[Amarok_73]

22 minutes ago, sirrah said:

I don't understand what you are saying

Orwell is definitely not for everyone.

[dburne]

I myself appreciate the rudder options. The more options the better imho. 

[frostycab]

17 hours ago, sirrah said:

Perhaps it's just me, but I don't understand what you are saying. 

Nope, it's not just you....

[Rogue Trooper]

8 hours ago, dburne said:

I myself appreciate the rudder options. The more options the better imho. 

Me Too.

likes my FFB setting very much indeed.

[Orwell]

I know some of you don't use curves, and I don't either... But for me, the Apache is way too brutally twitchy in terms of yaw. 
I'm talking unrealistically so. The machine cannot fly like that in real life. I'm sorry, but I've flown helicopters in the past and that is just foolish.

I'm saying tone them down, way down, to the more manageable levels of responsiveness found in the Huey/Mi8.

So then I try to use a curve to tame it. 

Except then you trim with the PEDALS WITHOUT SPRINGS AND FFB option, the curve doesn't move over to the new center point as it should (and does for the cyclic).
So then in a hover with left pedal put in, you're left with the sensitivity found in the mid-left region of the user-curve. 

I'm confident no one understands what I'm saying here. 
And it seems like the board is full of people who will defend ED at all costs rather than encourage ED to address an issue. 
 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Orwell

[dburne]

15 minutes ago, Orwell said:

I know some of you don't use curves, and I don't either... But for me, the Apache is way too brutally twitchy in terms of yaw. 
I'm talking unrealistically so. The machine cannot fly like that in real life. I'm sorry, but I've flown helicopters in the past and that is just foolish.

I'm saying tone them down, way down, to the more manageable levels of responsiveness found in the Huey/Mi8.

So then I try to use a curve to tame it. 

Except then you trim with the PEDALS WITHOUT SPRINGS AND FFB option, the curve doesn't move over to the new center point as it should (and does for the cyclic).
So then in a hover with left pedal put in, you're left with the sensitivity found in the mid-left region of the user-curve. 

I'm confident no one understands what I'm saying here. 
And it seems like the board is full of people who will defend ED at all costs rather than encourage ED to address an issue. 
 

 

 

You are correct the rudders need some tuning for sure.

[Rongor]

Still confused what he might think of with the Huey rudder option....

[Orwell]

33 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

You are correct the rudders need some tuning for sure.

Here is my issue. 

There is a fine balance between making each module "feel" different, and totally borking these modules.
IMO when it comes to helicopters, ED has a bias toward borking. 

They need to keep in mind that everyone has totally different controls setups **ANYWAY**.
We're not **ACTUALLY** in the real aircraft. So making the anti-torque pedals super twitchy might "feel" realistic according to the consultants they hire, with their fancy $600 pedals, but for someone else they might be totally bonkers. 

Ultimately, they need to offer vastly more options in terms of tunability for controls in helicopters, accounting for the fact that everyone here has different setups that are vastly different from the controls in the actual machines. We're talking different fulcrum points on sticks and pedals etc. Physically. 

Curves are jacked because if you lower the saturation and maintain a flat curve, you lose yaw authority at the extreme ends of travel. 

 

6 minutes ago, Rongor said:

Still confused what he might think of with the Huey rudder option....

That the huey/mi8 aren't twitchy AS HELL.

At least make the user curve follow the "new, trimmed center" position of the rudder.

[Rongor]

21 minutes ago, Orwell said:

At least make the user curve follow the "new, trimmed center" position of the rudder.

That's exactly what it does. With the trimming modes, you shift your curves' center.

[NineLine]

57 minutes ago, Orwell said:

ED has a bias toward borking. 

There are hundreds of different controls variables out there, when it comes to controls we give as many options as we can and then some of it falls on the user to tune and adjust as needed. If you have good suggestions, please share, but be nice about it. Thanks.

[Dangerzone]

2 hours ago, Orwell said:

At least make the user curve follow the "new, trimmed center" position of the rudder.

You got me curious so I went into DCS and set up my curves to be 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 31, and 100.  (Obviously not practical - but I've put in extreme's so I could be confident of 'catching it out')

I then CTRL+Enter to bring up the axis window, - brought my rudder to 50% right in the axis (Which would have been physically ~80% right I guess) and then trimmed, recentered, and checked the movement from there.

The user curve followed the new trimmed center - so from what I can tell it's already working precisely as you're suggesting. I'm not entirely sure why you're having such difficulty if you've got curves the way you want - but I'm fairly confident it's not because trim isn't honoring the curves when it's offset. 

Can you advise what you have your custom curves set to, and maybe some people here may be able to assist you with something that might be more to your liking?

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Dangerzone

[Havner]

OP has said "PEDALS WITHOUT SPRINGS AND FFB" so you don't recenter them after trim. And that the curve doesn't follow then. 

[Ephedrin]

When you have rudders without springs you don‘t trim the pedals, isn‘t that the point of having them? 

I had similar complaints in the beginning finding the Apache too twichy around the vertical axis, bein easily flyable with the cyclic but uncontrollable with the pedals. 
 

That was because I assumed to fly it like a hydraulic Huey!

I don‘t have much real life experience in helicopters, 2 hours in an R22, purely mechanical and extremely sensitive. It flys like a Huey on Extasy but ab Apache is neither a Huey nor an R22, it is a flying hydroelectical computer. 
 

Anyway, what I found was that I suddenly had no issues with my nose anymore when I understood that the flight control system would manage the nose itself and the more I tried to fly it like a Huey with actual anti torque pedals the more it fought my input: oscillations. Slowly keep the ball in the center and don‘t do much more and the oscillations stay away. 
 

Maybe the vertical axis needs tuning, I don‘t know. But it‘s totally managable and I doubt it‘s a matter of the pedals in use. 

[Dangerzone]

7 hours ago, Havner said:

OP has said "PEDALS WITHOUT SPRINGS AND FFB" so you don't recenter them after trim. And that the curve doesn't follow then. 

Aaah - I see. Sorry - my mistake. Thanks for the clarifiation.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Dangerzone