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DCS takes the simulations too literally to be fun or practical.


gotit

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Seems like the biggest problem is using too much keyboard.  One of the hardest parts of DCS is just sitting on the runway getting your HOTAS dialed in.  Getting all fighting stuff at finger tips and the other non-essentials are manipulated with the mouse.  "P48" should be a simple set up.

Also getting in the guides and knowing how the real hotas is set up helps you translate that into game. 

Maybe going into a warbird wasn't the proper choice either.  They can be a handful when it comes to just flying the thing.


Edited by Gunrun_KS
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6 hours ago, plane_crazy242 said:

To grow the community ED needs to appeal to more than the 1% hardcore enthusiasts. 

But why though ? 
DCS is a product specifically made for hardcore enthusiasts (not sure where you get the 1% from. 1% from what ?) and this is a community of hardcore enthusiasts, why does it need to grow outside of that ?
I think I speak for most people here when I say we are here BECAUSE it is difficult, BECAUSE it is a challenge.

Operating a fighter plane is not easy, so it shouldn´t be easy in a simulator. Mastering that is the whole point.

As someone else mentioned, this is like going to a football match and asking the players to play baseball instead, because you don´t like football...
If you don´t like pushing lots of buttons in the cockpit, you´re in the wrong stadium.

Frankly, I find it a bit weird when people who are not the target audience come to a forum to ask for a different product.
Yet, as has also been mentioned, there are options: Flaming Cliffs modules, autostart, etc.
If that´s still too much, again, you´re in the wrong stadium !

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7 hours ago, plane_crazy242 said:

To grow the community ED needs to appeal to more than the 1% hardcore enthusiasts.

We are growing, and continue to grow at an increasing rate. 🙂

We will be appealing to the casual in the future with MAC 

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It's a blessing that ED/DCS exist and they have the passion to create this sim for the hardcore audience. Despite all of the flaws we're really lucky it exists with all of the amazing experiences too. 

This thread makes no sense to me. If the simulation is "too simulation", I hear Battlefield's flight model is a lot easier to digest. Different flavors for everyone, that's the beauty of it.

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@gotit What could be said about DCS in general, has been said above, so maybe I'll throw some practical tips about P-47:

a) no need to use air brakes for dive bombing in the -47. They won't slow you down much (weren't designed for that after all) and honestly, they're not needed for anything practical (compressibility doesn't seem to be a noticeable issue in DCS) and you can forget about them;

b) linking your boost lever to throttle one should suffice for most combat situations - so you've got one less controller axis to worry about.

 

For the other guys who suggest trying out the game flight model - keep in mind that feature is half-developed and not really supported well in all recent modules, which makes it pretty much useless. In some planes this mode messes up flight physics so badly you can even takeoff properly (for example Mosquito), in others it makes flight more difficult actually than simulation mode (for example it disables trims while not removing forces and moments which need to be trimmed out - go figure).


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You are missing a big point here which is: we enjoy learning how to operate these planes, we enjoy flying them, we enjoy fighting with them. Yes, we know this is just a game at the end of the day but we enjoy the time we spend in it.

I think that simulators are just not for you, and I don't think you should try to convince us that what we do is pointless, because it is not as long as we have fun.


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5 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

We will be appealing to the casual in the future with MAC 

I'm slightly concerned about tha fallout for the forum....😅

No, honestly - that is a valid growth strategy and will pay in the further developement of DCS, I'm sure.

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8 minutes ago, Hiob said:
5 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

We are growing, and continue to grow at an increasing rate. 🙂

We will be appealing to the casual in the future with MAC 

I'm slightly concerned about tha fallout for the forum....😅

No, honestly - that is a valid growth strategy and will pay in the further developement of DCS, I'm sure.

@Hiob @BIGNEWY Same thought corossed my mind.

I'm going to say thanks to @gotit for this thread. This thread is clealy a strong data point for E.D. that DCS World and all it's hyperliteralism, attention to detail and fidelity is absolutely valued and must be continued.

I wish the MAC product line all the best also as it will likely prove to be a good launch pad for new players who have enjoyed it and decide to look for the next level, to join DCS World.

S!

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9 minutes ago, realDonaldTrump said:

LOL is this a serious post?

Great first post!

Welcome to the forum Donald!

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MAC will be particularly nice for one reason: currently, there doesn't seem to be any single-player arcade "plane games" designed for VR. MAC will be exactly that. Yeah, ED didn't  officially announce it, but given how great DCS is in VR, I'm sure MAC will have it, too. 🙂 I don't know if I'll buy MAC, but given that, I might, especially if they do a good job making SP content.

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I for one desire the complexity because...

1) There's "game mode" for the people who want a more casual experience

2) Complexity brings depth and raises the skill ceiling, as there's more to learn and experience.

3) Complexity brings satisfaction as you eventually not just master them, but become *good* at it. (How good, YMMV of course)

4) The systems simulation literally is the content in this game. You don't just buy an aircraft mesh, you purchase a complete cockpit and most of the systems in it, along with the documentation and all that.

 

In short, DCS is not for everyone. It's a niche product that enjoys a loyal and growing audience. Use game mode if you don't want ALL that much detail, it's definitely an option and there for a reason. But turning this into War Thunder would mean I stop playing and look for something else, something like... DCS 🙂

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I think DCS has a complex learning process but the game itself can become fairly intuitive. The handling models of all the aircraft seem realistic enough and are fun to work out. The most impressive thing about DCS for me being tilted towards the more casual approach is the visual experience; the cockpits, the liveries, the clouds and scenery - they really work to make the game mechanics seem immersive. I have to say to the OP: wanting real G forces in a video game would be a heath no-no for most gamers and in a sense physical forces are represented in the game through blackouts/redouts. 

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22 minutes ago, kennyuk77 said:

I have to say to the OP: wanting real G forces in a video game would be a heath no-no for most gamers and in a sense physical forces are represented in the game through blackouts/redouts. 

TBH, real G forces are also one thing that's physically impossible to simulate, even in a weakened version for health's sake. You'd basically need a station in Earth's orbit (otherwise, no 0G for you) fitted with a giant multi-axis centrifuge, with a gimbaled cockpit on one end and a variable counterweight on the other. Oh, and a pretty powerful array of thrusters to stop the station from jerking around in the opposite directions when the centrifuge makes its violent speed changes to simulate the G. And even then, you'd get Coriolis forces breaking your immersion. 🙂 I think it's safe to say you'd sooner be able to afford a real jet than that kind of rig. The closest thing we can get to a G simulator is a regular centrifuge, as used for pilot and astronaut training, but that can't do fractional Gs and it's not practical to have it do negative vertical G (still, given how elaborate home cockpit rigs can get, I wouldn't be surprised if someone, at some point, makes one of these...).

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On 4/19/2022 at 3:52 AM, gotit said:

"DCS allows me - within the restrictions of the platform - to simulate flying combat aircraft I could never even afford to climb aboard in real life."

I agree. I feel the same way.

My premise is that the company's devotion to hyperliteralism results a massive and unnecessary barrier of entry into the the fact that we're playing a video game for fun.

I guess for me, it's just too much work.

 

Hey gotit,

I can understand your frustration. I fly DCS and IL-2, and I own all of the warbirds for both.  I love and enjoy both sims equally, but I fly both sims for different  reasons. I'm not going go into those differences or what makes one better or worse than the other (there are many posts and opinions on that already), but the one thing that I really enjoy about DCS is the thing that is currently frustrating you. 

I think maybe if you rethink you control set up you may enjoy things better.  It looks like you are using the keyboard too much and the "clickable" cockpit not enough.

I fly in VR, so having to hunt and peck on the keyboard is not a great option, so I either bind important functions to my HOTAS or use the "clickable" cockpit, that way 95% or better input options can be performed without ever touching the keyboard.

I'm around most weekends and some weeknights if you need a little help. Send me a message here and we can meet on ts or discord


Edited by Hartsblade
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23 minutes ago, Hartsblade said:

I fly in VR, so having to hunt and peck on the keyboard is not a great option, so I either bind important functions to my HOTAS or use the "clickable" cockpit, that way 95% or better input options can be performed without ever touching the keyboard.

heck, I'm so in love with the Anton that I built this 30 momentaryOn-neutral-MomentaryOn toggle (60 button) deck so I can start the bird up as quickly as possible.. in VR... hah..

Difficult?  totally..

Practical? maybe..

Fun?  100% YES

image.png

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59 minutes ago, Hartsblade said:

Hey gotit,

I can understand your frustration. I fly DCS and IL-2, and I own all of the warbirds for both.  I love and enjoy both sims equally, but I fly both sims for different  reasons. I'm not going go into those differences or what makes one better or worse than the other (there are many posts and opinions on that already), but the one thing that I really enjoy about DCS is the thing that is currently frustrating you. 

I think maybe if you rethink you control set up you may enjoy things better.  It looks like you are using the keyboard too much and the "clickable" cockpit not enough.

I fly in VR, so having to hunt and peck on the keyboard is not a great option, so I either bind important functions to my HOTAS or use the "clickable" cockpit, that way 95% or better input options can be performed without ever touching the keyboard.

I'm around most weekends and some weeknights if you need a little help. Send me a message here and we can meet on ts or discord

 

exactly my thoughts, only buttons on the keyboard i use are for chat rarely (srs used mostly), esc key and f10


Edited by Gunrun_KS
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On 4/19/2022 at 3:52 AM, gotit said:

"DCS allows me - within the restrictions of the platform - to simulate flying combat aircraft I could never even afford to climb aboard in real life."

I agree. I feel the same way.

My premise is that the company's devotion to hyperliteralism results a massive and unnecessary barrier of entry into the the fact that we're playing a video game for fun.

I guess for me, it's just too much work.

 

Honestly I was pretty overwhelmed the first couple times I tried DCS too. It wasn't until I had someone personally walk me through things that I finally started getting the hang of it. Now I play multiple nights a week, solo or with friends, and I like to think I'm fairly competent.

Perhaps you can find a community to get involved with and ask someone to do the same for you, just walk you through setup, basic procedures, basic knowledge, etc.?

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1 hour ago, peachmonkey said:

heck, I'm so in love with the Anton that I built this 30 momentaryOn-neutral-MomentaryOn toggle (60 button) deck so I can start the bird up as quickly as possible.. in VR... hah..

Difficult?  totally..

Practical? maybe..

Fun?  100% YES

image.png

Very impressive! I can't get that specific with controls because my set up, which is all attached to my chair, needs to work for DCS, IL-2, an Star Citizen. I have dual sticks, a HOTAS, and an set of extra throttles that I can quickly move around depending on the game.20211225_150941.jpg


Edited by Hartsblade
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29 minutes ago, Hartsblade said:

Very impressive! I can't get that specific with controls because my set up, which is all attached to my chair, needs to work for DCS, IL-2, an Star Citizen. I have dual sticks, a HOTAS, and an set of extra throttles that I can quickly move around depending on the game.20211225_150941.jpg

 

Nice set up.  Is the thumb button the VPC warbird 4 way?  I fly the 16 and mine is a stick with a button press (X56). The throttle I love though.  Almost mirrors the 16.

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1 hour ago, Gunrun_KS said:

Nice set up.  Is the thumb button the VPC warbird 4 way?  I fly the 16 and mine is a stick with a button press (X56). The throttle I love though.  Almost mirrors the 16.

The Constellation Alpha grips on the WarBRD bases have

 1 x Dual-Stage Trigger
 1 x Dual-Position Flip Trigger (tactile switch trigger + button input for “UP” position)
 Combination Trigger Stages - flip trigger and dual stage trigger and be pressed simultaneously as a combined trigger for additional trigger stages
 1 x Analogue Stick (+ Push)
 3 x 4-way Hats (+ Push)
 1 x 2-way Hat (+ Push)
 3 x Momentary buttons
 1 x Brake lever (VPC Contactless Sensor) + Momentary button
 1 x Scroll Encoder (+ Dual Push)
 Lockable Twist Axis (VPC Contactless Sensor)
 Adjustable Hand Rest
 Metal Flip Trigger and Brake Lever
 Translucent hood with programmable RGB lighting

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