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DCS takes the simulations too literally to be fun or practical.


gotit

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4 hours ago, Hartsblade said:

Very impressive! I can't get that specific with controls because my set up, which is all attached to my chair, needs to work for DCS, IL-2, an Star Citizen. I have dual sticks, a HOTAS, and an set of extra throttles that I can quickly move around depending on the game.20211225_150941.jpg

 

you have a VERY clean set up. Grats!

I'm too ashamed to post the picture of my complete setup that is full of wires, more wires.. and yet more wires .. It looks like I've built some electrical powered bird nest around my chair .. 😄

 

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I've owned the f-16, f-14, and f-18 and m2000 modules for over two years

I can barely take off from a carrier. My success rate in landing on a carrier is probably 25%. My overall landing success rate is probably 60%.

 

I cannot (I can't stress this enough) aerial refuel. I keep trying. It doesn't happen.

 

I still can't figure out how to use HARM missiles reliably. I can't fly the f-14 at all really. I can't dogfight, I can't ccip bomb something before getting killed or wiffing completely. Targeting pods are a mystery only partially solved. The m2000c radar might as well be rolling text in ancient sumerian. And the list goes on.

The only thing I can manage to do is get a lock with AMMRAMs and lob them until I get shot down or go Winchester.

It's my favorite game.

 

 

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1 hour ago, peachmonkey said:

you have a VERY clean set up. Grats!

I'm too ashamed to post the picture of my complete setup that is full of wires, more wires.. and yet more wires .. It looks like I've built some electrical powered bird nest around my chair .. 😄

 

Thanks! One more shot of the whole setup...20210307_173752.jpg

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O and many I fly with would not fly DCS if is wasn't trying to be as accurate as it does. It would be sad as there is really no other options in this type of simulation. Falcon was similar and I for one loved and used for years. Of DCS was to cater to mainstream it would ruin the it for many of us. 

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2 hours ago, WavveBoi said:

I've owned the f-16, f-14, and f-18 and m2000 modules for over two years

I can barely take off from a carrier. My success rate in landing on a carrier is probably 25%. My overall landing success rate is probably 60%.

 

I cannot (I can't stress this enough) aerial refuel. I keep trying. It doesn't happen.

 

I still can't figure out how to use HARM missiles reliably. I can't fly the f-14 at all really. I can't dogfight, I can't ccip bomb something before getting killed or wiffing completely. Targeting pods are a mystery only partially solved. The m2000c radar might as well be rolling text in ancient sumerian. And the list goes on.

The only thing I can manage to do is get a lock with AMMRAMs and lob them until I get shot down or go Winchester.

It's my favorite game.

 

 

Do you fly solo, or online with others? Great to hear that you're still enjoying it, but maybe these tips may help you enjoy it more:

 

GOOD HOTAS

This can not be understated. I've flown with a 3D Pro stick, with the Logitech X56, and with a VKB/VIRPIL combination. There is no comparison. The phrase "Chalk and cheese" doesn't cut it. The finesse that a good HOTAS gives (read NOT Logitech) gives significantly greater control over aircraft. It can be done with the X56 (I did it), and can even be done with a 3D pro (what I started with) - however having a decent HOTAS will remove a number of challenges and improved my flying by quite a significant amount.

 

LEARN FORMATION

Forget AAR. Learn to fly in formation, and close formation straight and steady first. One of the biggest mistakes people make (including myself) when AAR is chasing the basket, or trying to get the probe in. AAR is almost exclusively about formation flying and not sticking the nozzle in - but even when knowing this - the subconscious brain wants to follow that drogue around. I really struggled with AAR - until I gave up, and just enjoyed close formation flying with friends while en-route to a waypoint/target/etc. I found (through accident) that learning to fly formation with others set me up, and when I went back to AAR with this skill - it just happened - and relatively easy compared to before. 

 

GOOD SERVER/SQUAD

Flying with others (especially the experienced) can rapidly increase skill levels as they pick up on things quickly that may take months to otherwise realize (if ever). I can't emphasize how handy it is to fly on discord and then go "Why isn't this working"... and have someone come back with "oh - have you checked x, y, z" - aaaaah!  Compared to failing over and over again because I've forgotten one step. 

They can help with guiding you onto the ship, seeing what you're doing that may be complicating your landings more, etc - and all round just adds a greater level of dynamic to the sim. 

There is no way that I would be as proficient as what I currently am in DCS if it wasn't for others. Helping each other out increases the learning rate exponentially. 

 

Of course, maybe none of this is for you and you're quite content with enjoying the sim how it currently is - but just on the off chance hopefully some of these tips may be helpful. 👍

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On 4/19/2022 at 3:51 AM, BIGNEWY said:

We have the flaming cliffs aircraft which are much easier to use, but DCS is by nature a sand box and can be played as you wish to. 

You can set air start, or hot start for example, you can use auto start cheats for starting engines. The point I am making is if you want to play a particular way create the mission as you want them to be.

In the future we will have MAC ( modern air combat ) which will be focused on more game style of play for fast action, maybe this is more what you are looking for. 

 

I on the other had enjoy the complexity of real world scenarios, 2 hour flight to drop one bomb is what I am looking for 🙂

That's awesome to hear about FC3, when is the Flanker getting Peer-to-Peer datalink?

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On 4/19/2022 at 3:52 AM, gotit said:

I agree. I feel the same way.

My premise is that the company's devotion to hyperliteralism results a massive and unnecessary barrier of entry into the the fact that we're playing a video game for fun.

I guess for me, it's just too much work.

 

Although you got some really harsh comments, I think most here mean well its just you hit a nerve I think. I would like to be more encouraging, because I think the bold text above is largely fixable. For starters, flying anything in DCS using a keyboard is neither easy or recommended.

So the first thing you need to do is get help tuning your system. It looks like you got some help on this front, but its up to you to decide if you need more.

The second most important thing is to realize that what your experiencing is normal and to be expected. I think the best way for you to look at this is by comparing it to what you know about playing a guitar. Think back how hard it was when you first started and compare that to today where it disappears in your hands. 

Most of the things causing you difficulty today will slowly start to disappear as you practice and learn. If you don't believe me, just google YouTube and watch experienced V-pilots dog fighting. Their actions have become so fluid they no longer have to concentrate on the cockpit, it just becomes second nature.

If you can get yourself through that curve still interested, I can guarantee you the fun part will come.  


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15 hours ago, Toumal said:

4) The systems simulation literally is the content in this game. You don't just buy an aircraft mesh, you purchase a complete cockpit and most of the systems in it, along with the documentation and all that.

This is a great point.

Every game needs gameplay loops and DCS gameplay loop is system managing. It is what keeps the player engaged throughout the session and it is what the player will try to improve on.

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In a certain way OP in her/his own opinion is right. We all are in our home cave , seated and suffering 1G and a few VR user suffering neckache, but nothing remarkable. Same rules for everybody. The problem I've observed thru all my simmer life is when all those physiological handicaps, or I have to say IRL physiological handicaps can be ingame overcome by just pressing some keyboard bings or small levers or buttons in a 400 bugs brand new HOTAS.

All that keybinding in a certain way is a "game changer" even in some ways can be considered a cheat that in real A/C's are/were certaintly HANDICAPS that condition/conditioned pilots techniques for mastering the way to fly them. 

Maybe in most jets those handicaps are well balanced between A/C models and the ingame implementation. But in piston era in where all those overcome handicaps arise remarkably and what IRL models were a handicap now ingame can be even a "game changer". 

Just an example, from a long list, that some A/C systems are not properly ingame implemented: flaps deployment while in the hot of a dogfight pulling high G's at high speed: ingame you can pull hard your stick with one hand while with the other can press CTRL+F, ALT+F, CTRL+SHIFT+F,.... whatever..... and your ingame A/C inmediatly answers. When you see in your cockpit 2 large wheels below your tiny throttle lever you won't ever realise how difficult was for real pilots actuate those wheels, levers,....while they enter in a combat situation due any physiological handicap.... 109 flaps needs almost 22 full twist to be fully deployed by hand and ingame you only have to keep pressed a joy button for less than 10 secs. 

Said that, it's nobody's fault: Real life is real life and sim world is just another world. Both have their pros and cons, but IMHO if some specific aspects of some A/C models are methodically implemented ingame, some A/C systems management should tend to be more realistically ingame implemented. I know sometimes it could be difficult or even impossible, but, at least, dev's should have it into account or in case they were having it into account then explain to customers why it can't be implemented that way, as simple (complicated) as that.

  

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A simple Human being's Passion

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Just my two cents ... 

I will have the highest possible realism- that is why I support DCS since "Su-27 Flanker"-days. 

During the winters I trained with DCS aircraft handling and used that skills in real life. Clean smooth and controlled inputs on stick and rudder can make a big difference and separate the good pilots from the ...rest of them. 

G-load will not help you to fly better. In reality you have to use the instruments because your feelings can be totally wrong. Stick and rudder force would be nice but ... not everything is possible.  (Warbirds)

For me DCS is a tool but not a game and yes - That is why I really enjoy it. So from my point of view the direction of Eagle Dynamics is right. 

 

Thanks and Cheers

TOM

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On 4/19/2022 at 5:51 AM, BIGNEWY said:

I on the other had enjoy the complexity of real world scenarios, 2 hour flight to drop one bomb is what I am looking for 🙂

Exactly.  If I'm flying with my virtual squadron and I'm able to help guide them on to target by lasing, giving directions, or passing coords during a 2 or 3 hour mission and I returned to base without ever even having went master arm on I assure you I had loads of fun in the process and no other sim can give that to me or come close.  If I come home from work and only have 30mins to play I'll load an airstart Pache mission and go to town.

@gotit My friend you need a complete HOTAS system even if it doesn't replicate a specific AC to enjoy the complexity.  99% of your inputs will be done on it.  I understand it can be expensive but when you get to that point where its muscle memory and you don't have to consciously think of the input you need and your mind is focused on mission strategy you'll be sucked in.  Even just adding a TWCS could improve your quality of life.  I recently got a new Virpil system which I'm 100% happy with and am having to relearn a decade of muscle memory which can be painful at times.  For example I've never had to use a DMS hat in my right hand and I'm keying the MIC when I mean to use the Coolie but thats gonna take some practice to overcome.

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14 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

LEARN FORMATION

Forget AAR. Learn to fly in formation, and close formation straight and steady first. One of the biggest mistakes people make (including myself) when AAR is chasing the basket, or trying to get the probe in. AAR is almost exclusively about formation flying and not sticking the nozzle in - but even when knowing this - the subconscious brain wants to follow that drogue around. I really struggled with AAR - until I gave up, and just enjoyed close formation flying with friends while en-route to a waypoint/target/etc. I found (through accident) that learning to fly formation with others set me up, and when I went back to AAR with this skill - it just happened - and relatively easy compared to before. 

This is sooooo true. I worked hard to learn AAR and got to where I was passable at it before switching to other things (there's only so long I want to stare at the back of a KC-135). Recently, I've been learning Blue Angels maneuvers with a buddy which is super difficult but also lots of fun. After practicing close formation flying all the time, AAR is a breeze. Not bragging. You too can AAR no problem: learn to fly form! No crazy barrel rolls necessary, just learn to stick close to your flight lead and it will help your AAR a ton. Also, it's way more fun than listening to that dickweed say "Return precontact" over and over and over.

As for the rest of this thread, I think some of the discussion is pretty ridiculous, but it's been a fun read. I can honestly say I see both sides. I used to feel the same as the OP. DCS was too up it's own --- with the "realism." Then I caught the bug and now I'm purchasing a replica HOTAS because the "realism" is what I want. It's not for everyone, but I'm glad DCS is the way it is.

Thanks ED. I really, really enjoy your simulator/game.

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I don't agree with this OP's impression that was stated. It's not like there are no other flight simulators or programs that probably fit the stated desires and I have never been impressed by the notion's of people who are going to "take their ball and go home" especially, if they can drag a lot of players with them. We all have volition and most do not try to influence others. Or maybe my impression of the OP's intent is completely "misunderstood". 

 

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On 4/19/2022 at 3:52 AM, gotit said:

"DCS allows me - within the restrictions of the platform - to simulate flying combat aircraft I could never even afford to climb aboard in real life."

I agree. I feel the same way.

My premise is that the company's devotion to hyperliteralism results a massive and unnecessary barrier of entry into the the fact that we're playing a video game for fun.

I guess for me, it's just too much work.

 

    To the OP,

While I for one appreciate your opinion and thus don’t think you a heretic, you have entered bizarro world where fantasy meets reality and the words you speak may very well have you nailed to a virtual cross.
    This is a world where some actually think they can fly real planes based in this simulator. A world where some think it’s cool enough to mention to a girlfriend. A world where some actually strap  up  in flight kit and think it’s cool. 
    In this world, some choose to overlook obvious differences from actual flight such as being able to turn ones head an inch and see your six, yet cannot get over themselves enough to deal with a vR experience where a head can go through an imaginary cockpit window.  Some are “real pilots”, that ignore the lack of g forces and can manipulate a dial or switch without having to compensate for motion. That’s realistic! But use a snap view?, rookie!!!!
    Btw, I keep getting shot down so the F18 (or Bug to those in the know) is Nerfed. (Slang for I suck). 
     To some, their scores make them feel good and even feel as though they must cheat to run up kill statistics that mean zip to anyone but themselves. We have  Rivet counters that fly with a keyboard, how does that square??
     Ignore the fact that you don’t actually die so you can pull maneuvers your body can’t actually handle. G’s? Naw, not in this hyper realistic world! Did I tell you that I landed the F14 on the Stennis my first try? (That would be the “turkey” if you please, oh and not land but rather “hit a wire” ) What's with these Navy wussies? its a piece of cake….

Folks here complain left and right about free servers, where dedicated guys spend countless hours setting up complex scenarios. How dare they take half their free time and create a scenario thats “unbalanced”? Where I can’t load what I want on my aircraft from any farp!  What gives with the gall of always allowing blue the advantage??          
     Here, Capt. Is a looser because his website makes more money than mine. So don’t follow his advice…

Yes the list goes on in this bizarre world.    BTW, Don’t you dare call it a game, it’s a study level sim pal, where only the mighty and most dedicated hold their heads up high. Where the procedure is the actual life like procedure, THE ONLY WAY TO START AN AIRPLANE! (until the next instruction update anyway)  Wish list! Naw, people here will tell you what your wishes should be. Choose acceptable wishes or be chastised!! 
   Performance issues?  Hell, it’s buttery smooth pal, and if you choose VR, well that’s unacceptable and performance is your fault.  Flat screen is the way to go here because its more realistic than a 3d environment. (Because “they” say so”). Hey, btw, your not having stutters because my screen looks awesome…

Just remember, if you choose to engage one of the “experts “ in a ear of words, they are skilled in the art of twisting words, the use of the popular term “straw man argument”   And lastly, if cornered will not hesitate to go after your speling, grammar and punctuation.(catch what Indid there?)

 Yet, here WE are and you will find that the silent majority want to just have FUN! (Blasphemy!!). It’s far from “plug and play” Learn at your own pace, ask questions, ignore the know it alls and use your ignore feature. There are many normal folks around, they just have learned to have fun and stay silent. IT’S A Game! Enjoy!
safe skies! 


Edited by Mr. Big.Biggs
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Haptics and Force Feedback along with VR all function.even together.

Yes Ww2 warbirds are a Handful and very difficult to fly. The bf109 had the reputation of killing its own new pilots bacuse of the torque and poor landing gear.movies and games make them look easy.

DCS is the top of the tree when it comes to sims. IL2 is below that in the middle and War Thunder below that near the bottom with arcade phisics made to act real. 

Point is dcs is the place you want the real deal. And thats why Dcs despite the learning curvs and costs is one of the last surviving simulators.

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So much writing is not known about what ...
The case is as simple as a wire ...
If someone thinks that DCS (Digital Combat Simulator) is a game - instead of complaining about the degree of difficulty, etc., you should install a game in which you fly with airplanes not simulate, only playin.

A lot of people wrote here that there are FC3 modules for such people. You're wrong, gentlemen. FC3 modules for someone who does not understand the basics of the behavior of an airplane "body" in airspace, who does not know what HSI is, who has no clue of how Doppler radar works, what it is and how ILS works, etc., are just as "difficult" "like those with clickable cockpits. And surely, sending such people to these "machines" does not change anything here.

Either someone wants to FLY a virtual plane or wants to play an airplane game. If someone does not grasp this simple "truth" - does not understand its sense, then unfortunately DCS is not for him.

Writing thousands of words to justify their ignorance in the field of aviation knowledge - especially the combat one - DCS - and forcibly proving that DCS is "too difficult" is nothing more than the hysterical crying of a child who does not understand that they ended up in a toy a battery, he will not play until dad / mom buys new ...

Various people "play" with flight simulators. Some people look for the highest possible realism in them, from the use of systems in the cockpit to the construction of real cockpits. Others take pleasure in the fact that they can tear a virtual plane off the virtual ground and fly, fight and land with it. Some people want to feel like real pilots, others just want to play.

But both of them, since they choose DCS, not AceCombat or World of Warbirds or War Thunder, means that they are looking for something more than just games in this game. Because even treating DCS only as a game, you have to accept its "otherness" - a simulation, not a substitute for something about airplanes.

Finally, I will repeat - DCS is not at all difficult at the start - it is only very demanding. And thus, it is not for everyone - it is for people who want to devote their time and do it, without complaining that they have to devote so much time to it.

In that respect, it's like a guy playing Counter Strike who comes up with the idea of "playing" ArmA III. The same type of whining;)

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5 hours ago, Nahen said:

So much writing is not known about what ...
The case is as simple as a wire ...
If someone thinks that DCS (Digital Combat Simulator) is a game - instead of complaining about the degree of difficulty, etc., you should install a game in which you fly with airplanes not simulate, only playin.

A lot of people wrote here that there are FC3 modules for such people. You're wrong, gentlemen. FC3 modules for someone who does not understand the basics of the behavior of an airplane "body" in airspace, who does not know what HSI is, who has no clue of how Doppler radar works, what it is and how ILS works, etc., are just as "difficult" "like those with clickable cockpits. And surely, sending such people to these "machines" does not change anything here.

Either someone wants to FLY a virtual plane or wants to play an airplane game. If someone does not grasp this simple "truth" - does not understand its sense, then unfortunately DCS is not for him.

Writing thousands of words to justify their ignorance in the field of aviation knowledge - especially the combat one - DCS - and forcibly proving that DCS is "too difficult" is nothing more than the hysterical crying of a child who does not understand that they ended up in a toy a battery, he will not play until dad / mom buys new ...

Various people "play" with flight simulators. Some people look for the highest possible realism in them, from the use of systems in the cockpit to the construction of real cockpits. Others take pleasure in the fact that they can tear a virtual plane off the virtual ground and fly, fight and land with it. Some people want to feel like real pilots, others just want to play.

But both of them, since they choose DCS, not AceCombat or World of Warbirds or War Thunder, means that they are looking for something more than just games in this game. Because even treating DCS only as a game, you have to accept its "otherness" - a simulation, not a substitute for something about airplanes.

Finally, I will repeat - DCS is not at all difficult at the start - it is only very demanding. And thus, it is not for everyone - it is for people who want to devote their time and do it, without complaining that they have to devote so much time to it.

In that respect, it's like a guy playing Counter Strike who comes up with the idea of "playing" ArmA III. The same type of whining;)

Exhibit of pompousness noted. Thanks for clarifying my point to the op.
 One more for my ignore….(Rhyme??)

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4 hours ago, HotTom said:

Has anyone noticed the OP vanished several days ago?

He was trolling, folks. Gotit has left the building. You are preaching to an empty room.

 

Farting in a full elevator and then disembarg whilst the doors are closing....😂

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