Would anyone care to share their User Curvers?

[JOEM423]

If anyone would like to share a good user curve to control Yaw, Pitch and Roll, especially Yaw, It would be greatly appreciated! Ive been practicing to control the Apache, but Yaw keeps getting away from me!

 

Thanks in Advance,

Joe

[Isaac]

Hi,
Are you using pedals or cyclic with yaw axis (z rotation)?

Isaac

Edited April 20, 2022 by Isaac

[JOEM423]

2 hours ago, Isaac said:

Hi,
Are you using pedals or cyclic with yaw axis (z rotation)?

Isaac

 

Im Currently limited to using Yaw on my Throttle until i get all my hardware out of storage, But I can temporarily purchase seperate rudder pedals if need be!!!

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

10 minutes ago, JOEM423 said:

Im Currently limited to using Yaw on my Throttle

Using buttons or an axis? Either way it's understandable if you're struggling, but with buttons you can't really set curves.

As for curves on pitch/roll axes, they are highly individual since it all depends on how tall your stick is, how long your extensions are (if they are at all present), how much friction you have on the stick (can you adjust the friction?), and where you have your stick mounted/placed.

I don't use curves at all for example, but I perfectly understand this may not work for everyone. It's always best to experiment and then stick to what feels "right" to *you*. And even after that, it's perfectly fine to make adjustments the more your experience with the aircraft grows.

[JOEM423]

im using an Axis on the throttle

[Rongor]

zero curves. best curves.

[Dozer1606688093]

2 hours ago, Rongor said:

zero curves. best curves.

Not when it comes to women.. 

[Isaac]

15 hours ago, JOEM423 said:

Im Currently limited to using Yaw on my Throttle until i get all my hardware out of storage, But I can temporarily purchase seperate rudder pedals if need be!!!

Hi JOEM423,

Yes, I would personally recommend to purchase a GOOD set of pedals (Virpil, vkb,... ) anything that is metal construction with good sensors, unlike airplanes helicopters are inherently unstable and a fine control of the tail rotor is a must.
 

 

11 hours ago, Dozer1606688093 said:

Not when it comes to women.. 

While Dozer is damn right, I also think that when it comes to controllers you only use curves when either they are subpar or they are broken / misbehaving, if they are properly working controls I strongly recommend not to use any as you are going to loose finesse.

Isaac

[Floyd1212]

2 hours ago, Isaac said:

I strongly recommend not to use any [curves] as you are going to loose finesse

Isn't the purpose of adding a curve to give you more finesse around the center position, trading off some granularity at the axis extremes?

I'm using a center stick with a 20mm extension and still like some curve to give me added precision around the center for holding a rock-steady hover.  I'm running a curve of 15, and y-saturation of 90 for pitch and roll axis.

[Isaac]

1 hour ago, Floyd1212 said:

Isn't the purpose of adding a curve to give you more finesse around the center position, trading off some granularity at the axis extremes?

I'm using a center stick with a 20mm extension and still like some curve to give me added precision around the center for holding a rock-steady hover.  I'm running a curve of 15, and y-saturation of 90 for pitch and roll axis.

Floyd is totally right in his statement, however that was not what I was trying to convey (provably I used poorly chosen wording). Personally I don't like the idea that a control is going to behave differently at different angles because of the curve. While I'm no (real world) pilot I think helos are not meant to operate with curves other than what the manufacturer defines after thousands of testing hours at the beggining of the manufacturing phase (please correctme if I'm wrong), if you are unable to fine control the 64 then my recomendation is to practice more otherwise you are moving away from how it was meant to be employed, basically you are going to constantly input larger than necessary movements to your controls because your axis sensitivity at the center has been reduced to make your life "easier" something that would not translate well if one day you are given the chance to fly and Apache ... Being said that, try to fly with and without curves and see what you like the most...

By the way, I totally agree with Floyd's input on the 20cm extension... very much neded for helos.

Isaac

Edited April 21, 2022 by Isaac

[LooseSeal]

 

13 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 I totally agree with Floyd's input on the 20cm extension... very much neded for helos.

Hmm... I'm not convinced that an extension is 'needed' for helos. I personally can't use a centre-mounted stick due to stupid arthritis in my right hand limiting my grip... so I'm restricted to table-mounting. I think it's perfectly fine and capable of hovering with a normal setup.

Actually, I finally got my Virpil Constellation yesterday and first thought 'oh man, this is going to be a nightmare to re-learn how to fly this'. Immediately hopped in and did a perfect hover check first time. The extra finesse on the Virpil over my previous Warthog really made a difference.

As for curves, I find them completely necessary - I think 20 for me. But to the OP I would just say... try out some values and see what works for you. Everyone is different. Try a value, check if it's making it easier. Adjust it, then try again.

[agamemnon_b5]

19 minutes ago, Isaac said:

Floyd is totally right in his statement, however that was not what I was trying to convey (provably I used poorly chosen wording). Personally I don't like the idea that a control is going to behave differently at different angles because of the curve. While I'm no (real world) pilot I think helos are not meant to operate with curves other than what the manufacturer defines after thousands of testing hours at the beggining of the manufacturing phase (please correctme if I'm wrong), if you are unable to fine control the 64 then my recomendation is to practice more otherwise you are moving away from how it was meant to be employed, basically you are going to constantly input larger than necessary movements to your controls because your axis sensitivity at the center has been reduced to make your life "easier" something that would not translate well if one day you are given the chance to fly and appache

Problem is, we aren't flying with control setups that are exactly the same as what's in the real bird.  Most of us have return to center flightsticks and pedals.  Not everyone has a floor mounted stick.  Not everyone has the latest top of the line stick.

Curve editing exists for a reason in the game/  

Edited April 21, 2022 by agamemnon_b5

[Leg2ion]

Hi @JOEM423...

In order to get back to your request (as opposed to a discussion whether curves are good/bad, unrealistic if you wish to fly a real AH (trying to ignore the statement about making your life easier - it is a game after all!) etc...see below. They are what I use, with a standard TM HOTAS setup - with the stick/cyclic set to the right of my chair. I found someone elses custom curves elsewhere in the forums - which I used as a starting point - so you should do the same - and tweak them until you feel right. The idea behind my curves is a 'soft cushion' around the centre point but then emulates linearity as you go outside this. In addition I also have a slight curve on my collective - to try to reduce the 'Rotors' warning when I pull pole at hot/high locations (initially set up a training flight in Nevada - then transferred it to Caucasus - makes a helluva difference). 

Without curves I found that what felt right in one situation didn't work in another, and the below certainly helped...

Yaw:

Pitch/Roll:

[JOEM423]

1 hour ago, Leg2ion said:

Hi @JOEM423...

In order to get back to your request (as opposed to a discussion whether curves are good/bad, unrealistic if you wish to fly a real AH (trying to ignore the statement about making your life easier - it is a game after all!) etc...see below. They are what I use, with a standard TM HOTAS setup - with the stick/cyclic set to the right of my chair. I found someone elses custom curves elsewhere in the forums - which I used as a starting point - so you should do the same - and tweak them until you feel right. The idea behind my curves is a 'soft cushion' around the centre point but then emulates linearity as you go outside this. In addition I also have a slight curve on my collective - to try to reduce the 'Rotors' warning when I pull pole at hot/high locations (initially set up a training flight in Nevada - then transferred it to Caucasus - makes a helluva difference). 

Without curves I found that what felt right in one situation didn't work in another, and the below certainly helped...

Yaw:

Pitch/Roll:

Thank You

[pii]

On 4/21/2022 at 11:30 AM, Isaac said:

Floyd is totally right in his statement, however that was not what I was trying to convey (provably I used poorly chosen wording). Personally I don't like the idea that a control is going to behave differently at different angles because of the curve. While I'm no (real world) pilot I think helos are not meant to operate with curves other than what the manufacturer defines after thousands of testing hours at the beggining of the manufacturing phase (please correctme if I'm wrong), if you are unable to fine control the 64 then my recomendation is to practice more otherwise you are moving away from how it was meant to be employed, basically you are going to constantly input larger than necessary movements to your controls because your axis sensitivity at the center has been reduced to make your life "easier" something that would not translate well if one day you are given the chance to fly and Apache ... Being said that, try to fly with and without curves and see what you like the most...

By the way, I totally agree with Floyd's input on the 20cm extension... very much neded for helos.

Isaac

 

My issue is the peddles are to damn sensitive with very little movement needed that makes me need a curve of 45 on the peddles or I'm all over the place. Its to the point where I have to BARELY put pressure on the peddle to make them work correctly, but then at some point the peddle will kind of slip and input far too much peddle and then when I let up on the peddle it swings back the other direction which begins the great swinging helo dance. If only I could find some peddle that were more precise and don't cost an arm and a leg to buy.  My JS is fine in at least I can control it but will be looking into getting an extension and lighter spring. But 50 bucks for a spring seems excessive 

[Leg2ion]

51 minutes ago, pii said:

If only I could find some peddle that were more precise and don't cost an arm and a leg to buy. 

Currently using TM T.Flight pedals - which seem adequate. I find if I apply pedal then just as the nose starts to yaw I ease up a slight bit it is controllable. If I get 'hard' yaws make an input and let it settle - takes some nerve at first to avoid chasing the movement.....

[Floyd1212]

8 hours ago, pii said:

My issue is the peddles are to damn sensitive with very little movement needed that makes me need a curve of 45 on the peddles or I'm all over the place.

I have the same issue. 

I started messing with adding a curve to that axis, but the point where you need the precise control for hovering (with a significant amount of left pedal) is not at the center of the axis where your curve is flat. 

It's like I need a trim for my curve.    Some way of taking the y-saturation of the axis way down while I'm trying to hold a hover, giving me more precise control, and then be able to set it back to normal for active flying.

Maybe I will mess with Joystick Gremlin and mapping different curves to a virtual joystick based on what flight symbology mode I am in.  Pressing down for Hover or Bob mode flattens the y-saturation, and pressing up for Transition or Cruise mode sets it back to normal.  Switching between them might be an abrupt transition, though.

[Floyd1212]

I played with this a little bit just now, and after doing a little testing I found holding a (rather perfect, if I do say so myself ) OGE hover, with a combo load-out of rockets and hellfires, and 50% fuel, put my pedal axis around -47%.

I then setup two different "curves" for my MFG pedals to map through to a virtual axis using Joystick Gremlin, then mapped the virtual axis in the game to the pedals.

Using the "Symbology Up" button on the cyclic puts the pedals into an unmodified 1:1 "curve", so everything feels normal, but any tiny nudge of the pedal while hovering causes a significant change in heading, like I am used to.  Using the "Symbology Dn" button on the cyclic remaps a different "curve" with much less y-saturation, so small adjustments of the pedal have much less impact on the heading of the helo.

The key here was to setup the two "curves" so they overlap at the rough position where your pedals will be when hovering; roughly 50% left pedal.

Standard curve for Flight Mode:

 

Modified curve for Hover Mode:

 

It worked pretty good, with a minor jump when transitioning back and forth between modes, depending on how far you have deviated from the crossover position, but it was very manageable.  I'll play with this setup for a bit and see if it is worth the trade-offs. Obviously, as the helo gets lighter with less fuel and armament onboard, this crossover position will change, but I will have to do some experimenting to determine by how much.

[Nevyn]

On 4/23/2022 at 7:28 PM, Leg2ion said:

Hi @JOEM423...

In order to get back to your request (as opposed to a discussion whether curves are good/bad, unrealistic if you wish to fly a real AH (trying to ignore the statement about making your life easier - it is a game after all!) etc...see below. They are what I use, with a standard TM HOTAS setup - with the stick/cyclic set to the right of my chair. I found someone elses custom curves elsewhere in the forums - which I used as a starting point - so you should do the same - and tweak them until you feel right. The idea behind my curves is a 'soft cushion' around the centre point but then emulates linearity as you go outside this. In addition I also have a slight curve on my collective - to try to reduce the 'Rotors' warning when I pull pole at hot/high locations (initially set up a training flight in Nevada - then transferred it to Caucasus - makes a helluva difference). 

Without curves I found that what felt right in one situation didn't work in another, and the below certainly helped...

Yaw:

Pitch/Roll:

Tried these, these are pretty good for me, feels less twitchy than the way I had it, so thanks man.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Nevyn

[Черный Дракул]

On 4/23/2022 at 8:28 PM, Leg2ion said:

'soft cushion' around the centre point but then emulates linearity as you go outside this

In fact, the best setup is 2-3 linear parts with sharp corners. This adds precision to each part, while keeping the benefit of changing "slope" to cover all the available area. Of course, this setup will require trimming to keep the response curve where it belongs when it is required, but that's the fate of all non full range sticks. 

[Leg2ion]

12 hours ago, Nevyn said:

Tried these, these are pretty good for me, feels less twitchy than the way I had it, so thanks man.

Glad to be of help. I do occasionally have a play with them - but normally end up back from where I started.