Nealius Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 (edited) When the player/client is the only one recovering, the Commence time is generally ~10 minutes after calling inbound if you come from directly aft of the boat. Calling inbound is done at 50nm. Closest Marshal is 21DME. At 300kts 6000ft getting to your stack takes a smidge over 5 minutes. This doesn't leave enough time for even one 6-minute lap in the marshal stack. This gets worse if you call inbound from the front quarter of the ship, where you will basically hit Commence time by the time you are Established. I propose Commence times should be at minimum doubled. Those who don't want to wait in the stack can just blow through, as there currently are no consequences for ignoring your Commence time. Edited April 23, 2022 by Nealius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPig Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 No one forces you to perform a 6-minute holding. As long as you are on your assigned alt and stay behind the approach fix you can fly whatever you want. Half standart rate turn will take 4 minutes for a full circle. The rest time to go till your push time is half downwind, half upwind. And so you hit your pushtime. You have your parameters, you have your dont's from NATOPS'S, you have your instruments and math. Rest is being a pilot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted April 23, 2022 Author Share Posted April 23, 2022 (edited) We're forced into a 4-minute pattern. That's my point. We need to be able to check in at 50nm and have a reasonable push time to fly more than a single 360 turn. Adding AI to fill up the pattern doesn't work because they cause all kinds of havoc on the deck with taxi crashes and parking over the foul lines. If I wanted to decide my own push time then I wouldn't have bought the Supercarrier module. Edited April 23, 2022 by Nealius 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foka Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 No one said you should fly 300 kts to your marshall. Fly 450. Slow down just befor marshall. If marshall stack is empty, why holding? You don't need to wait for separation, if you're on time you can even comence stright in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted April 24, 2022 Author Share Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Foka said: If marshall stack is empty, why holding? Practice. Illusion of cyclic ops for realism. Why is this even a question? Quote No one said you should fly 300 kts to your marshall NATOPS. Fairly certain you're restricted somewhat on airspeed inside the 50nm control zone but I'll need to check. Also depending on fuel state 450 may not be practical. The excuses used to defend the status quo are getting somewhat absurd when the suggestion does nothing but improve the status quo with zero negative impact on other players. Edited April 24, 2022 by Nealius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foka Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 If you want to practice, ignore AI marshall and hold as long, as you want. If you want to practice Case 3, it's impractical to hold when stack is empty. If you want full stack, add AI flights. What about people who don't want to "practice" holding? On every mission they'll need to hold non sense empty pattern? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted April 26, 2022 Author Share Posted April 26, 2022 (edited) On 4/25/2022 at 8:04 AM, Foka said: If you want to practice, ignore AI marshall and hold as long, as you want. Like I said above, if I do this then I wouldn't have bought the supercarrier. Quote What about people who don't want to "practice" holding? Like I said, they can ignore it. You fail to grasp any of my points which I clearly stated above and you obviously did not read. I'm starting to wonder why I even bother addressing counterpoints upfront when no one has the common decency to read before replying. Edited April 26, 2022 by Nealius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 On 4/23/2022 at 11:40 AM, Nealius said: I propose Commence times should be at minimum doubled. I'm against pointless circling. If the times are good enough there's no point in making them any longer. The whole idea of stacks and patterns is for 1. safety 2. order 3. economics. The wish would fail to comply with #3. 2 Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M HOTAS FC3, F-14A/B, F-15E CA SC NTTR, PG, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzLine Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 Weird, I always seem to have time for one orbit, if not two. Sometimes more if there's many aircraft in the recovery ahead of me. CV NATOPS ( a.k.a navair 00-80t-105, can be found online easily ) makes no reference to airspeed limitations either within the Carrier Control Area (50nm) or the speed at which the holding pattern should be flown (although common sense and plane NATOPS recommend max conserve). There are probably airwing-specific procedures in place and of course CATCC has full control over their airspace. Also, if your fuel status is a concern for flying 450kts GS, then I don't think it's a super great idea to waste time orbiting in the marshall stack ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted April 26, 2022 Author Share Posted April 26, 2022 (edited) 57 minutes ago, BuzzLine said: Also, if your fuel status is a concern for flying 450kts GS I assumed IAS, as GS/TAS wasn't specified. 1 hour ago, draconus said: I'm against pointless circling. If the times are good enough there's no point in making them any longer. The whole idea of stacks and patterns is for 1. safety 2. order 3. economics. The wish would fail to comply with #3. Then ignore the push time and let people who want to hit it hit it. Like I said here and here. Edited April 26, 2022 by Nealius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foka Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 10 hours ago, Nealius said: Like I said above, if I do this then I wouldn't have bought the supercarrier. Like I said, they can ignore it. You fail to grasp any of my points which I clearly stated above and you obviously did not read. I'm starting to wonder why I even bother addressing counterpoints upfront when no one has the common decency to read before replying. Oh, so in your opinion 95% of players, who just want to fly a mission will have to waste time on holding, because 5% of players (including you) want to practise. You don't want to ignore push time for practis, but you tell others to do so. Sounds like legit argument. IMO good compromise would be adding to comms option "Unable push time" and AI LSO would move the time another 5 or 10 minutes. Or better 30 mins for people who want to "practice". 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPig Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 (edited) A holding isn't for your practice. If you want to practice it, set a course line through a TACAN, set DME and practice. The Marshal is forsafety and efficiency. Edited April 26, 2022 by SteelPig 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foka Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 From other discussion new idea has born. In Case III comms with Marshal during recovery phase, when I call inbound and receive marshalling instructions, it would be nice to have option "Unable push time", informing marshall that I can't make it on time, and marshall would change push time another 5 or 10 minutes. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=475FG= Dawger Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 No pilot ever wants to hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman99 Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 On 4/27/2022 at 1:09 AM, =475FG= Dawger said: No pilot ever wants to hold. Not necessarily, depends if you're on overtime that month . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=475FG= Dawger Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 2 hours ago, norman99 said: Not necessarily, depends if you're on overtime that month . Fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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