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Additional Tankers


Tank50us

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So, in my attempts to refuel, I noticed something: While in the Tomcat, I was just about able to keep pace with the tanker (the MPRS), and got into a position where, had the KC-135 had the attached basket on the boom, I probably would've been able to connect no problem. Now, this is in NO way a plee to make tanking easier by a long shot. But it is a request to have more tanker options in DCS. Examples of what I'd like to see are:
KC-135 with the basket (or an option with the original one to have the basket attached):
Why Navy pilots hate The KC-135 | SOFREP

KC-10 (as an official, not a mod):
McDonnell Douglas KC-10 Extender - Wikipedia

KC-46:
https://images03.military.com/sites/default/files/media/equipment/military-aircraft/kc-46a-tanker/2014/02/kc-46_003.jpg

The Airbus MRTT:
Airbus A330 MRTT - Wikipedia

Vickers Valiant:
An air to air picture of a Vickers Valiant tanker (Photos Framed,  Prints,...) #21760049

And any others that haven't been discussed (or announced). What do you guys think? Any more flying gas stations you want to see?

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I've wanted the KC-10 in a few missions for the extra fuel capacity. It would also be nice to have tankers for other nations and eras.

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At least the KC-10 plus another non US Tanker would be nice. Agreed. A complete overhaul would even be better. MPRS should be able to refuel both types of refueling systems at the same time. Communications should be improved (Set up the requested refuel quantity), tweak the AI flying of the tankers when connected. Adjust the Speed depending on the airframe requesting fuel.

But not sure what you are requesting exactly? Did you have issues with the wind turbulence on the MPRS? If yes, just tweak your flight a bit to the outside of the wings and you should be golden. Isnt the Iron Maiden (the drogue attached to the boom) the most hated air refuel method IRL? 🙃

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With the HB's coming KA-6 there will be *5 types - imho it's plenty.

*6 if you count KC-135 and KC-135MPRS separately


Edited by draconus

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13 minutes ago, draconus said:

With the HB's coming KA-6 there will be *5 types - imho it's plenty.

*6 if you count KC-135 and KC-135MPRS separately

 

Although I agree with you, and while imho not at all urgent, the KC-10 can't really be missing.. (wonder why it didn't make it from LOMAC into DCS in the first place. Looking at some of the other old AI models, they look like they've have been just copied from LOMAC into DCS)

 

As for any additional tankers.. Again, no priority imho... but if ED were to consider it, we definitely need more UK assets... So I'd vote for:

  • VC-10
  • Tristar

 

I'd say both the KC-46 and Airbus MRTT are quite a bit too modern compared to the full fidelity modules available in DCS.

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29 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

They'd certainly fit in with the EF-2000 that's coming

That's true 🙂 

I think I just let my heart speak, when saying I would much MUCH rather like to see a VC-10 or Tristar (both the KC-46 and Airbus look sooo incredibly boring... I know.. a very personal opinion indeed 😉)

 

I could also have suggested the beautiful Victor BK1 😍, but I didn't..

(perhaps once we get the English Electric Lightning though... 🤔)

A12009.1.jpg


Edited by sirrah
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+1.

I'm personally interested in seeing the KC-10A Extender (with or without the additional drogues on the wings, or preferably something that can be controlled via the loadout menu) and a Handley Page Victor K.2.

With the KC-10A, it's the fact that the aircraft supports mixed refuelling and can itself be refuelled in flight. With the Handley Page Victor, it can also be refuelled mid-flight, though for me it's more for the upcoming South Atlantic map (though lacks RAF Wideawake on Ascension Island, where it was actually based, as well as aircraft it refuelled).

 

Though there seems to be some limitations with tankers in DCS at the moment.

For example, why is there a separate S-3B and S-3B tanker? The 2 aircraft are identical IRL, the latter just has a D-704 buddy store equiped. Not only does this needlessly clutter up the unit list and complicates warehouses; it's also going to be problematic for aircraft that can equip buddy stores IRL (such as the A-6E).

The second thing is mixed refuelling - if you use the KC-135MPRS (KC-135R [MPRS mod]) it can only accept aircraft fitted with a probe, when it should support mixed refuelling as is, requiring you use both the KC-135 and the KC-135MPRS to support both aircraft, when you should only need the latter.


Edited by Northstar98
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2 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

+1.

I'm personally interested in seeing the KC-10A Extender (with or without the additional drogues on the wings, or preferably something that can be controlled via the loadout menu) and a Handley Page Victor K.2.

With the KC-10A, it's the fact that the aircraft supports mixed refuelling and can itself be refuelled in flight. With the Handley Page Victor, it can also be refuelled mid-flight it's more for the upcoming South Atlantic map (though lacks RAF Wideawake on Ascension Island, where it was actually based).

 

Though there seems to be some limitations with tankers in DCS at the moment.

For example, why is there a separate S-3B and S-3B tanker? The 2 aircraft are identical IRL, the latter just has a D-704 buddy store equiped. Not only does this needlessly clutter up the unit list and complicates warehouses; it's also going to be problematic for aircraft that can equip buddy stores IRL (such as the A-6E).

The second thing is mixed refuelling - if you use the KC-135MPRS (KC-135R [MPRS mod]) it can only accept aircraft fitted with a probe, when it should support mixed refuelling as is, requiring you use both the KC-135 and the KC-135MPRS to support both aircraft, when you should only need the latter.

I too am a bit puzzled by the limitation on the KC-135MPRS to service Probe and Drogue as well as Boom recievers. The game certainly knows what you're flying so there shouldn't be any confusion on the part of the tanker when you call up "Ready for Precontact". If you've got a probe he'll extend a basket and if you've got a receptical he'll lower the boom. I do understand that the MPRS is a RAZBAM product but I fail to see the logic in ED witholding the code to allow both systems to function.

While on the subject of tankers, would it be so difficult to throw in a few more callsigns for them?

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11 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

For example, why is there a separate S-3B and S-3B tanker? The 2 aircraft are identical IRL, the latter just has a D-704 buddy store equiped.

 

I assume that it is for compatibility reasons, so that missions edited prior to Razbam's modification of the S-3 would work without change. It's the same reason as to why all those older F-18, F-14, and Carl Vinson carrier from Lo-Mac are still kept around.

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3 hours ago, sirrah said:

I could also have suggested the beautiful Victor BK1 😍, but I didn't..

 

I'd love to have on DCS an AI Victor K2 👍

Screen_220425_112545.jpg

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54 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

I assume that it is for compatibility reasons, so that missions edited prior to Razbam's modification of the S-3 would work without change. It's the same reason as to why all those older F-18, F-14, and Carl Vinson carrier from Lo-Mac are still kept around.

Perhaps there's a solution to that though.

For instance, keep legacy units present in the files but not present in the mission editor unit list. Obviously providing that the unit in question has been superseded, and is available to mission editors for free.

 

So if a new aerial refuelling system comes around, facilitating buddy stores, meaning that the 'S-3B Tanker' unit becomes depreciated and redundant - we'd only have a single S-3B in the unit list, but keep the depreciated units in the files, such that missions using them don't become broken.

Of course, it may be useful to keep legacy units for performance reasons, in certain circumstances (though ideally, units would be optimised to have minimal performance impact).

 

Then if you want to configure your S-3 as a tanker - equip the buddy store, if not, then don't.

 

Though another problem might be tasking - it's hypothetically possible for something like the A-6E to go on a bombing mission, and act as a tanker. The same goes with the S-3B.

As an example, here's an A-6E equipped with a D-704 and a load of Rockeyes, and here's one refuelling another A-6(?) while also carrying a Maverick.

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2 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

we'd only have a single S-3B in the unit list, but keep the depreciated units in the files, such that missions using them don't become broken.

 

I'd rather keep the old unit on the listing as it would be useful if I'm editing an older mission that I want to update, perhaps ED could add a "(depr)" suffix to the deprecated units.

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I realize that this doesn't actually fall in line with the original post/wish but I thought that this is as good a place to ask as any - has there been any work done on improving the physics of the refueling basket yet? As I recall, Wags mentioned quite some time ago that ED had plans for working on the interaction of the basket with the receiving a/c and probe. I'm not thinking about interaction with the "bow wave" or any other aerodynamics involved but rather, just making it so that the basket doesn't end up in your lap or face when you miss it with the probe just a little bit. Can there be some kind of collision box developed so that the basket and airframe see each other as solids? Not a big deal, just curious if this is even still on the back burner or has it completely gone away?

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I believe the new physics will be for the new S-3 first (test bed) then other tankers (maybe new models as well).. That was the original goal, if it's changed since then we don't know. 

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