Awesomejlee Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 (edited) Before I say anything, I'm a Hornet pilot mainly. Did some testing tonight, at 10,000 ASL, x2 AIM 9s and x2 AIM 7s, 60% internal fuel. It sustained 14.7 degrees per second at around mach 0.8, and around 7G. According to all charts I can find (which, granted, aren't the real charts, but one I used is supposedly BASED on the real charts) it should do just over 13 degrees per second. ED, you don't have to artificially inflate the performance of the jet to sell it. Please, please give us the correct performance. Going by the Viper's real charts it shouldn't be out rated by a Hornet in this scenario. Edited April 26, 2022 by Awesomejlee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esac_mirmidon Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 (edited) It could be helpful to add a track, a tacview file, something to check your results, before claiming ED is inflating anything. Edited April 26, 2022 by Esac_mirmidon " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapsu Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 I guess you mean charts from one of the older mods of "the other sim"? EM charts from that doc are not based on real charts, only the level flight envelope chart is. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] DCS Finland - Finnish DCS community SF Squadron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 (edited) A lot of FM stuff is probably looking at a video and trying as best as possible to mimic the real life version. I know for my Super Hornet project for another game the FM guy based it off of airshow videos and the like. It'll never be accurate because probably that's classified information or not accessible to ED on actual performance. Even with it out of service there are still layers of secrets that probably will never see public viewing. I mean are you a real Hornet pilot to judge? Probably not like I am. So it'll be "wrong" in some sense. They can only do so much. Edited April 26, 2022 by EricJ LOMAC Section| | Gaming Resume (PDF) | Gallery | Flanker2.51 Storage Site | Also known as Flanker562 back in the day... Steam ID EricJ562 | DCS: A-10A/C Pilot | DCS: Su-25T Pilot | Texture Artist "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulkbust44 Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 "Going by the Viper's real charts it shouldn't be out rated by a Hornet in this scenario." False. You need the documents for our up-engined Hornet with the 402s. A clean Hornet should slightly out rate the Viper in sustained level turn just as it does now. It's not enough of an advantage for aviators to train to in the real world, but it's there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPig Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 The charts I have for the Hornet matching this described performance pretty well to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARLAN_ Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 Hornet seems to match pretty well in DCS as far as I can tell, the only thing missing is some g onset/pitch authority at higher speeds. 1 Virtual CVW-8 - The mission of Virtual Carrier Air Wing EIGHT is to provide its members with an organization committed to presenting an authentic representation of U.S. Navy Carrier Air Wing operations in training and combat environments based on the real world experience of its real fighter pilots, air intercept controllers, airbosses, and many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted April 26, 2022 ED Team Share Posted April 26, 2022 please be careful not to post information from real world documents. PM me if necessary thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomejlee Posted April 26, 2022 Author Share Posted April 26, 2022 (edited) 58 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said: please be careful not to post information from real world documents. PM me if necessary thanks That wasn't a real world document. I guess, since you consider it real, that it is accurate, and that the FM is, indeed, wrong. Anyway, I guess if you want my source, PM me. And if you have charts I should see, send them to me. Edited April 26, 2022 by Awesomejlee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted April 26, 2022 ED Team Share Posted April 26, 2022 25 minutes ago, Awesomejlee said: That wasn't a real world document The document said it had used values from real world documents so we have to be careful Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomejlee Posted April 26, 2022 Author Share Posted April 26, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said: Gotcha. Well, if anyone has documents that state the Hornet should perform as it does, I would really like to see them. Just send me a PM please! Edited April 26, 2022 by Awesomejlee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudel_chw Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 Is 1.7 degrees/sec significant enough to warrant this thread? ... particularly in light that the OP only reference is: "according to all charts I can find (which, granted, aren't the real charts ..." 2 For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1 Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulkbust44 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 And FFS stop comparing it to the F-16 when it comes to FM performance. Only reason I hate the Viper is because of the people that worship it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said: Is 1.7 degrees/sec significant enough to warrant this thread? ... particularly in light that the OP only reference is: "according to all charts I can find (which, granted, aren't the real charts ..." Agreed. 1 LOMAC Section| | Gaming Resume (PDF) | Gallery | Flanker2.51 Storage Site | Also known as Flanker562 back in the day... Steam ID EricJ562 | DCS: A-10A/C Pilot | DCS: Su-25T Pilot | Texture Artist "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaa Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 (edited) Only FM bugs I can think of are a few little tweaks like the AOA shift when crossing the deck (3PTS EGIW), the lack of FBW assisted lateral stability with gear down and flaps full, and some high alpha tendencies, like the pirouette maneuver that ED is currently investigating. AFAIK the rest of the envelope is dang close to the RL charts for the 402's. Edited April 27, 2022 by Mikaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 On 4/27/2022 at 1:02 AM, Rudel_chw said: Is 1.7 degrees/sec significant enough to warrant this thread? ... particularly in light that the OP only reference is: "according to all charts I can find (which, granted, aren't the real charts ..." You're kidding, right? A 30% increase of static installed trust in another plane resulted in less STR increase ASL, and you are telling me that 1.7 (if indeed so) at 10kft is not worth the attention? Mate, that kind of change would make for whole different plane Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudel_chw Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, captain_dalan said: A 30% increase of static installed trust in another plane resulted in less STR increase ASL Well, 13º vs 14.7º is only about 13% difference ... so, yeah, I find this quite a bit of nitpicking For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1 Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blinky.ben Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said: Well, 13º vs 14.7º is only about 13% difference ... so, yeah, I find this quite a bit of nitpicking Other way around would it be the same attitude? Just a statement, No answer required as this will always be considered a biased topic. however in the Gaming world with members competing would you happily accept your opponent have a 13% advantage which shouldn’t be there? There is more comments from real proven fighter pilots which are qualified and experienced in both airframes that state the difference between the two is wrong, which aircraft is wrong no one seems to point out which. The problem tho is the F-18 flight data seems to be harder to come across so it would seem ED have had to fudge some numbers for guess work, The F-16 seems to have more data available so it seems they can get closer to the real thing. Now if anyone points out the difference is wrong between the two ED simply shut down the topic and say prove it with data that your not allowed to us to prove anything, so we have a situation where your not allowed to prove the current situation incorrect by the rules created by ED which are for valid reasons. personally I only fly both in war style servers so guns only fighting means nothing to me but double standards grinds my gears. Edited April 28, 2022 by Blinky.ben 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_dalan Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 On 4/29/2022 at 12:54 AM, Rudel_chw said: Well, 13º vs 14.7º is only about 13% difference ... so, yeah, I find this quite a bit of nitpicking If only the alpha induced drag dependency was linear and with a shallow slope.....alas, while the excess power available relation to sustained turn rate is, relation to drag isn't. In the above mentioned example, the 30% increase in installed static thrust resulted in a 0.75 deg/s difference (about 5% increase) at 10000ft and 0.85 deg/s difference (again about 5% increase - no big surprise there) at 5000ft. Even after adjusting for the extra weight gained by the aircraft over their lifespan, the increase in STR (or any higher angle of attack related metric really) due to increase in thrust in relative units is going to remain in single digits. At best 8-9% BUT with lower fuel margins on ordnance/payload available. For similar configurations, the increase is more likely to drop to 3-4%. So....no, a 13% difference is not a slight oversight. IF and i must emphasize that if, the OP's data is remotely accurate (which might as well not be), a discrepancy of that margin is enough to warrant a new plane. Degree and half difference is a lot, even at sea level. At 10000ft? It's unheard of. 1 Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xhonas Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 They will fix it when Heatblur releases the Typhoon and the Hornet still dominates it in every scenario 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 I'm just waiting for the nose-suck down bug on landing/traps to be addressed. That's the only FM bug that really bugs me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figaro9 Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 OPs plots are from another game as already correctly stated above. And they were proven incorrect when the famous gao report was released. Mstr in those game-plots are 2dps (!) below the official dod figures. Mstr for the epe hornet is rather close to the -200sep curve (33325lbs/ 2*2 FE). Those gamers were lacking 2 degreese per second compared to the real jet! EDs performance in that regard is 'correct as is' based on available data. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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