fixed JSOW AGM-154A Low Damage

[Hobel]

Hi I threw 3 AGM154A at a search radar today in a small PvE mission, all 3 failed to destroy it, only a GBU38 was able to destroy it.

A truck in the immediate vicinity could also survive again and again.  

 

 

The radar:

 

 

Such and other things are me online in PvE or even PvP in connection with this weapon more often. noticed.

When I rebuild the scenarios in the editor/SP and test it there, the SA-2 radar was always destroyed.


in the recording you can see 2 of 3 hits: https://streamable.com/34u32k
Although, as you can see, 2 trucks could be destroyed without effort



Trackfile:

https://www.file-upload.net/download-14915237/AGM153ALowDamge.trk.html


Roughly summarized the behavior of the weapon is partly very questionable and it is very annoying when in a mission 3! of the AGM153A are not enough for track radar.

 

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Hobel

[BIGNEWY]

The track is to large and does not play correctly for me, but in our tests it is working as intended. 

You should check the F10 map and the health bar of the unit it will show damage. 

thanks

[Hobel]

thanks for looking

How did they test it exactly?

As mentioned before, in my SP tests it works fine.

But if you play a MP PvP/PVE with more players, it will cause more problems. this is not limited to one server.

Yesterday on Buddyspike (after the patch) it worked as desired against all targets, only when the problem comes up again when you play a mission where you only have 1 life and one attempt and 3 AGM154 is not enough for a soft target, it is very annoying.

If you test an AGM154 against this radar in a clean environment it will be destroyed 99% of the time.
In the PvE mission 3 AGM154 were not enough, you can see 2 impacts in the video.
Life bars are not visible in the mission as in many others and there the problem occurs more.

Have you watched the track file in real time?
The problem is very difficult to reproduce and the track files will be large and long in the future, at least 10-30min. Because I could only observe this in MP missions, I have to get the proof there as well.

maybe  it is also fixed with the patch. but if I observe it again or I come to it I will try to provide more evidences.

[Nealius]

I can confirm this on my dedicated server. AGM-154A targeting an SA-2 launcher, which is typically easily destroyed by a couple of 20mm rounds, takes zero damage from the submunitions.

[Hobel]

On 4/30/2022 at 4:57 AM, Nealius said:

I can confirm this on my dedicated server. AGM-154A targeting an SA-2 launcher, which is typically easily destroyed by a couple of 20mm rounds, takes zero damage from the submunitions.

Can you still say under what conditions this happens and and do you have an actual track file on this?

 

Have been several people on the server and the missions setup?

Edited May 1, 2022 by Hobel

[Nealius]

8 minutes ago, Hobel said:

Can you still say under what conditions this happens and and do you have an actual track file on this?

Only 2 people on the server. Simple practice mission in Syria. The SA-2 site had a mix of live units and static units for low-intensity practice. JSOWS were launched PP. Poor weather conditions though I thought the JSOWS were unaffected by wind. I had a long replay track but purged it with the recent update, since replays are never compatible with newer versions.

If I have time I'll try to reproduce with an air-start in zero wind. 

[Hobel]

21 minutes ago, Nealius said:

Only 2 people on the server. Simple practice mission in Syria. The SA-2 site had a mix of live units and static units for low-intensity practice. JSOWS were launched PP. Poor weather conditions though I thought the JSOWS were unaffected by wind. I had a long replay track but purged it with the recent update, since replays are never compatible with newer versions.

If I have time I'll try to reproduce with an air-start in zero wind. 

How many did you drop on it?

Make sure that there is at least one other player on the server.

Otherwise the error will not or hardly be noticeable.

If they notice that the SA 2 position does not take damage, fire more and always one at a time.

Thanks for the investigation

[NineLine]

I will ask our MP Testers to look into it, see if there is something going on in MP. 

[Hobel]

Am 3.5.2022 um 22:12 schrieb NineLine:

I will ask our MP Testers to look into it, see if there is something going on in MP. 

thx!

I was out with a friend earlier and our AGM154A's were not able to destroy an S-6 radar or the launcher.

 

went back to the server and threw 4 more on the radar, where from 3 have hit

You can clearly see that the launcher gets no damage, although it is standing in the middle of the storm!

If you test the whole thing in SP, you'll see that the Blu can even do light damage before the ones that land nearby completely destroy the Radar

From this it can also be deduced that those who land near the radar in the MP test should at least cause damage as in the SP test, but this is not the case.

=

-The Blu must hit the unit directly in MP missions as soon as this error occurs.
 

-Indirect hits, which are always perfectly adequate in SP, no longer work in MP.
As if the HE damage is suddenly turned off

 

 

 

 

 

MP test:

You can also see the effects of the previous attempts on the ground, at least 5 AGM have triggered above the radar

 SP Test :

as you can see it works here exactly as it should Wonderful

 

Track file are very long and I have not yet sifted them myself, I will try tomorrow to make more such test and then deliver track after.

 I hope that from the video I posted at least the Poblem is recognized. that's all I want for now 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Hobel

[Hobel]

Here is a track file that shows the problem mentioned.
And a video of what is seen in it.

don't be surprised that an AGM154 goes into the ground, apparently I threw it too early. or another bug?

https://www.file-upload.net/download-14919768/AGM154MPBug.trk.html

 

If you want more examples I will supply them, but it should be clear what the problem is.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Hobel

[Hobel]

@NineLine

Sorry for the interruption. 

 

But Is what I have posted comprehensible and is it sufficient for now?

Or do you need more for a report, I can gladly send more tracks that show the already presented again.

Ty.

[Tenness]

I am sorry, but how can this be correct-as-is when it is clearly not?

Edited May 9, 2022 by Tenness

[NineLine]

On 5/5/2022 at 5:59 AM, Hobel said:

@NineLine

Sorry for the interruption. 

 

But Is what I have posted comprehensible and is it sufficient for now?

Or do you need more for a report, I can gladly send more tracks that show the already presented again.

Ty.

MP Testers will check it out, I havent heard anything back yet.

[Hobel]

~5min track 2 AGM154A are not enough to destroy a tracking radar that had little life left.

Damage done 0%

 

Don't be surprised if the track file stands still at the beginning.

https://www.file-upload.net/download-14923750/4YA_CAU_PVE_v6.8_Maykop_03_DEC_BKN-20220510-194818.trk.html

 

 

 

SP test.

Also you can see that the first explosions are very far away and yet the tracking radar is destroyed immediately.

 

10.05 AGM154 SP kill.trk

 

 

 

 

DCS does not yet simulate splinters?
is there a fixed pattern running in the background and the rest is just show? very strange behavior overall.

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Hobel

[Hobel]

Fun Fact:

DCS :         29 x BLU-97/B
reality  :   145 x BLU-97/B

 

 

A simple soldier survives with 50%...

where the SP test again shows what we expect.

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Hobel

[Frederf]

The visible number of submunitions is less than the total of simulated. 20% are visible and simulated, 80% are invisible and simulated. It keeps the graphical demand down.

[NineLine]

5 minutes ago, Frederf said:

The visible number of submunitions is less than the total of simulated. 20% are visible and simulated, 80% are invisible and simulated. It keeps the graphical demand down.

Yes, this is correct for all weapons with sub-munitions, as it is they can grind a lower end computer to a stop, but rendering all sub-munitions would be quite bad, that said 100% of munition impacts are calculated and the results displayed. 

[Hobel]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb NineLine:

Yes, this is correct for all weapons with sub-munitions, as it is they can grind a lower end computer to a stop, but rendering all sub-munitions would be quite bad, that said 100% of munition impacts are calculated and the results displayed. 

ah okay thanks for the info.

But what about the problem I'm actually trying to present here, that can't be "correct as is".

is something still unclear?

 

Edit:

Could it be that the ammunition not shown is swallowed from time to time in multiplayer?

This would also explain the survival of the soldier when only the displayed 20% arrives.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Hobel

[NineLine]

As I said above, our MP Testers are planning a testing session for this, as it seems to be fine in Single Player, but MP has issues for some. 

[Hobel]

thx 

 

And update

something is new

Old behaviour:

 

New behaviour :
 

 

 

[Hobel]

more :

All 145 Blu impacts with range Damage indication for the SA2TR

Edited May 31, 2022 by Hobel

[NineLine]

So are you still seeing issues?

MP testing has not reported anything back. 

[Hobel]

I think so.

Even Blu further away cause damage in the SP test until more destroy the position

Well, and in MP nothing happens with 2 AGM154A.

 

 

just now tested

https://www.file2send.eu/de/download/OwW2RVra6MWYdd53STN8YyMacYWVUqlEx0D9R9H71Euu9PK1OQthxbrm31jq8vyp

 

 

 

 

EDIT :

I have looked at the track file of mine and it seems to be faulty.... I have the feeling that when the bug appears the tracks then no longer go or whatever.

That's why the YT videos they see clearly what happens in MP scenarios and then opposite the SP test where it works wonderfully.

Better I can not deliver.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Hobel

[NineLine]

Thanks Hobel, I will point our MP tester here and if he has any question he can PM you. 

[Hobel]

thank you

I have made a few more test with focus on Sp but with a new parrameter Ground.  did not know that this can be a factor did you know that?

is that intended and that the HEdamage then decreases so enormously?

I think that should then also affect other weapons, I will check that

Edit:

This does not apply to other weapons

have been tested:

GBU38
GB31
Maverick
M151 Hydra
Aim120C

SD 2

 

 

 

If the target vehicle is on grass (or other) , the HE damage goes against 0% . and needs a direct hit

 

 

i have reduced the number of Blu dropped to one to see what exactly is going on:

 

Normal settings:

-You can see that the SA6 standing on grass either take no damage or are destroyed immediately because this was a direct hit.

-The Sa6 standing on the airfield already take small to medium damage from near blu until further blu destroy them completely.

 

 

 

 

My personal opinion after all the testing:

I think the Blu could do more damage on the  airfield as well, you can see in the first video how even other SA6 that are still around take 0% damage, if you could at least adjust the damage so that they would take at least 5-10% damage that would be a good thing in the DCS context.

And I think against such a unit like the Sa6STR 5-10% would be appropriate at such a distance.

 

in real life the mass of the Blu and the Shrapnel would at least always make the radar useless

in DCS however nothing happens after a few meters more

 

 

You see because of the way DCS handles HE damage that nothing happens on grass anymore.
in real life the shrapnel would still do enough on a light unit like this and especially against the radar dish

Unless we have a simulation of shrapnel in DCS, the ground in DCS should not make a difference, otherwise there will be undesirable side effects like here.

 

 

If you need more details please let me know.

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Hobel