Is there a quick "Furball" mode

[Terribletwo]

I know how to set up a quick mission etc.. We have to go in and select the flight, and change the type of aircraft.

But I was wondering if there's a mod or if there's a way to set up a very quick furball mission where you can actually select the type of enemy aircraft?

 

In Falcon BMS this is done very quickly with a drop-down menu for the enemy aircraft type.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

just use create fast mission option, you can set how many air and land targets on each side and your start position. 

You can also edit the create fast mission. 

Thanks 

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Please note our rules about not discussing other sims here on the forum before replying. 

thanks

[Terribletwo]

Unfortunately that's not what I had in mind.

 

We should be able to have a dog fight mode like in Falcon 4, where you can quickly select the enemy aircraft type.  You can also quickly select the loadout and distance from each other with a simple slider.

[Dragon1-1]

DCS could indeed use a function in which one could just drop two aircraft at a specific altitude and distance to merge, head on, on an arbitrary spot on the map. Perhaps also weapon restrictions (guns only, heaters, Fox 1s, Fox 3s, in that order). Quick and easy to use, no fussing about. Could use existing mission generator infrastructure, just with very simplified parameters. Basically, an "instant dogfight". This mode would be great for trying out tactics and practicing engagements against different enemy aircraft types.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Dragon1-1

[Terribletwo]

Yes.  That's what the Dogfight mode is in Falcon BMS.

 

Surprised DCS is lacking such a basic option.

[draconus]

So we need to have the ability to quickly set location, time, date, weather, distance, aspect, alt, speed, weapons, fuel, roe... wait - that's already in ME, no need to copy that. There's a save button to make them one click missions ready to practice. Or one mission loaded into ME and just change the AC.

[Dragon1-1]

Location isn't one click in ME. You don't need to fiddle with the date, weather and time, just make a few presets. Weapons could be presets, as well, particularly for the AI. Adjusting the distance is problematic in ME, since you need to move the aircraft and measure it every time. We want a slider. Same for altitudes. Changing the map and location are multiple clicks in ME, we want one (a simple graphic with a mosaic of all available maps would work, with unowned ones grayed out). We don't want to set coalitions, just have them permanently set to CTF Red and Blue, so that all aircraft are available. 

ME is a really clunky way of doing it. Plus, it takes time to load. We want a simple way to just click and fly, with the only loading being the mission. Many other sims have a simple air duel generator that cuts out unneeded cruft that the mission editor comes with.

[Terribletwo]

4 hours ago, draconus said:

So we need to have the ability to quickly set location, time, date, weather, distance, aspect, alt, speed, weapons, fuel, roe... wait - that's already in ME, no need to copy that. There's a save button to make them one click missions ready to practice. Or one mission loaded into ME and just change the AC.

No.

 

The purpose of dogfight mode is to see how one aircraft performs against another.

 

If you're unfamiliar with Falcon 4, then I suggest maybe checking it out.  It's slick, it's fast, and it serves the purpose to see how you as a pilot, or you and your particular aircraft perform against another particular aircraft.

 

Messing with date time and all that other stuff is irrelevant.

[M1Combat]

I mean I agree that this could be a neat addition to the "create fast mission" thing...  A little checkbox that sets it up as a furball/dogfight with a selector for map, weather and enemy type etc...

BUT...

The suggestion to use the mission editor IS actually a good one.  you can make one mission, set it up the way you want and then save it with a player and enemy aircraft.  You don't need to back out of the mission editor to fly it, just test fly it.  You want a different enemy or player aircraft...  just select them from a dropdown.    Change alt?  Yeah..  select the aircraft and type the altitude.  Have you ever tried to get two sliders that go from 0-50K feet to land on the same number?  Good luck.  As a matter of fact with the need to change aircraft loadouts to setup whatever match you want...  I'd say the ME is likely the easiest way to get this done no matter what ED might choose to do with a furball generator...  seriously...

 

Go ACTAULLY try.  The ME is super easy to use.  Just because it HAS a ton of options doesn't mean you should or have to use them...  If you need a super simple mission setup...  It's "actually" super simple.  Is it more than three clicks?  Yeah...  but not a lot more.  I'd bet that once you create the initial mission (which is super easy...  I have a few) changing the enemy Aircraft is like literally 4 clicks INCLUDING the click that gets you into the ME from the main menu.  I guess that doesn't include loading the mission file but I think that's like 2 clicks...

 

If you don't like it...  search user files for a furball/headon/bfm/dogfight mission...  There's things...

Edited April 29, 2022 by M1Combat

[Exorcet]

7 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Location isn't one click in ME. You don't need to fiddle with the date, weather and time, just make a few presets. Weapons could be presets, as well, particularly for the AI. Adjusting the distance is problematic in ME, since you need to move the aircraft and measure it every time. We want a slider. Same for altitudes. Changing the map and location are multiple clicks in ME, we want one (a simple graphic with a mosaic of all available maps would work, with unowned ones grayed out). We don't want to set coalitions, just have them permanently set to CTF Red and Blue, so that all aircraft are available. 

ME is a really clunky way of doing it. Plus, it takes time to load. We want a simple way to just click and fly, with the only loading being the mission. Many other sims have a simple air duel generator that cuts out unneeded cruft that the mission editor comes with.

I feel like the ME is fine.

Create a mission however you want, then save it.

Load it in the ME whenever you want to change things.

It's just as fast as Falcon (I'm familiar with the menus, at least in the original game). Distance is easy in the ME, create trigger zones to the size you want. Move the zone to the location of the fight, then place the planes on the edge of the zone. Distance set. Alternatively you could have multiple client aircraft and choose one on mission start and use triggers to spawn the appropriate adversary.

A dedicated mode for this is still a good idea, but the ME covers about 95% of it as far as I see it.

[M1Combat]

I mean who needs them to be at some exact distance anyway?  Measure 10NM or 20 or whatever you want and then set them about where you want...  No big deal...

Don't get me wrong...  the feature would be cool for sure...  Uspecially if they made it reset the planes after each kill and all that and maybe so you could use the comms menu to spawn another fighter of your choosing...

 

But wait...

 

They would just use the ME to do that and I'm 99.9% sure SOMEONE has already created that mission :).  Just go find it folks :)...

 

Oh dang...

Example:
"Spawn two Mig 29 at 5 miles" - 2x Mig29 will spawn on your 12'o clock at 5 miles, equal altitude to your aircraft
"Spawn four F-14 at 50 miles, angels 30"- 4x F-14 will spawn on your 12'o clock at 50 miles, at 30,000 feet
"Spawn two Su-27 on my six" - 2x Su-27 will spawn on your 6'o clock at 1 mile, equal altitude to your aircraft

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3321361/

 

You're welcome

[Dragon1-1]

Except that's all scripted. Can you spawn a MiG-29 at 50 miles and angels 20? Unless the scripting is far more clever than I assumed, I doubt it. That's what the quick dogfight mode would be for. Fully customizable, without the need to fuss about with comm menu. Preferably without needing to unload the mission, either, so the aircraft can just spawn, with the relevant screen replacing the normal briefing (and able to be accessed in the same way).

As an aside, it'd also be useful for quickly setting up various kinds of test scenarios. If a bug manifests itself at 15 miles out but not at 14, and the only way to find that out is to iterate over engagement distances until you find the range that triggers it, you'd have an easier time testing it with a dogfight generator.

[M1Combat]

"Spawn four F-14 at 50 miles, angels 30"- 4x F-14 will spawn on your 12'o clock at 50 miles, at 30,000 feet

 

"Spawn four F-14 at 50 miles, angels 30"- 4x F-14 will spawn on your 12'o clock at 50 miles, at 30,000 feet

 

"Spawn four F-14 at 50 miles, angels 30"- 4x F-14 will spawn on your 12'o clock at 50 miles, at 30,000 feet

[Terribletwo]

The dogfight mode in Falcon 4 is more than that though.

 

If you get shot down you respawn right away.  

 

If you shoot the enemy aircraft down, it respwns a new one.

 

It's a perpetual dogfight..

[rayrayblues]

6 hours ago, Terribletwo said:

If you get shot down you respawn right away.  

If you set yourself up with  four or more planes set for client,

you can just go to Esc/Choose Slot and jump back into the fight. 

[M1Combat]

On 4/29/2022 at 1:53 PM, Terribletwo said:

The dogfight mode in Falcon 4 is more than that though.

 

If you get shot down you respawn right away.  

 

If you shoot the enemy aircraft down, it respwns a new one.

 

It's a perpetual dogfight..

I've played it...

How do you know the mission I posted up there doesn't work that way?  OR...  that there isn't already another that does?

Come on folks...  Like I said I'm all for something like this but if you are NOT willing to go check out a mission that may do exactly what you want and all you ARE willing to do is ask for a tailored feature to be dropped behind a single click or maybe two that somehow devines "exactly" what "you" want then I'm actually against it.  I think the dev time of ED is MUCH better spent adding features to the ME or fixing bugs or something.  The COMMUNITY is more suited to using the provided tools to give you exactly what you want...

Which has "almost certainly" been done already and you're just not actually interested enough in your feature to either go take a look and/or make it yourself and in so doing help yourself AND the community.  That mission above was literally the first result in a very simple search.

I'd bet that what you're trying to get done could be made in a basic form with the mission editor and a little research in a VERY short amount of time.

Please shift your paradigm.

[Dragon1-1]

9 hours ago, M1Combat said:

I'd bet that what you're trying to get done could be made in a basic form with the mission editor and a little research in a VERY short amount of time.

No, it can't be done, unless you can figure out how to allow the player type in numbers in ME. I've flown various derivatives of Falcon 4 for some time, so I know. Your mission isn't that, it just spawns a few predefined encounters that are impossible to change without editing the mission. If you want something different, it's useless. What we want is a dynamic mission using some (fairly basic) new UI to spawn enemies.

[rayrayblues]

On 4/28/2022 at 3:17 AM, Terribletwo said:

I know how to set up a quick mission etc.. We have to go in and select the flight, and change the type of aircraft.

But I was wondering if there's a mod or if there's a way to set up a very quick furball mission where you can actually select the type of enemy aircraft?

 

In Falcon BMS this is done very quickly with a drop-down menu for the enemy aircraft type.

 

On 4/28/2022 at 4:55 PM, Terribletwo said:

Unfortunately that's not what I had in mind.

 

We should be able to have a dog fight mode like in Falcon 4, where you can quickly select the enemy aircraft type.  You can also quickly select the loadout and distance from each other with a simple slider.

 

On 4/29/2022 at 1:53 PM, Terribletwo said:

The dogfight mode in Falcon 4 is more than that though.

 

If you get shot down you respawn right away.  

 

If you shoot the enemy aircraft down, it respwns a new one.

 

It's a perpetual dogfight..

Sounds like you need War Thunder.

[M1Combat]

I can definitely see the benefit to the furball/dogfight mission...  I just think there's something out there already.  How about YOU go look :)...  you're the one that knows what you're looking FOR.

 

 

[Terribletwo]

I guess I just assumed everybody was already very familiar with Falcon's Dogfight mode.  It been part of F4 since it's first release.

 

I don't know maybe someone will create a mod someday that will recreate it.

 

 

 

 

 

[M1Combat]

Well...  I am familiar :).

I'm just saying that there are significantly superior options out there in DCS...  You just need to be willing to restart the mission intead of re-spawn.  Or you can respawn too if you want it just takes a couple clicks.  Esc/back to spectator/choose role/fly for re-spawn (there may be a hotkey too I'm not sure) and then if you want a mission restart just esc/Ctrl-R or maybe Ctrl+Shf+R?  That will restart the mission.

I just don't understand the strict locked requirement that it be "exactly the same thing" without any diversion what so ever.  There's just no point as far as I can tell.  Id bet if you go to the thread of the person who made the mission above I'd bet he can figure out a "respawn" command too...

DCS is infinitely moddable and the ME is infinitely configurable with things like Moose...  soo...  ZERO need for the devs to provide you with exactly what you want when they've already spent YEARS providing a platform that will do what you want if you ask it to...

 

Go ask it to :).

[rayrayblues]

17 minutes ago, M1Combat said:

ZERO need for the devs to provide you with exactly what you want

https://imgur.com/SRsfa58https://imgur.com/SRsfa58

[rayrayblues]

20 minutes ago, M1Combat said:

ZERO need for the devs to provide you with exactly what you want