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Tailerons full aft after landing


Indianajon

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So this is a new one on me but after doing a case 3 (acls switches on but manually flown) my stabs are fully aft after landing. Pushing the stick full forward moves them but only about a quarter of the direction. Using trim did nothing. Only seen since latest update. Is this something I have done wrong or potential new bug? Flew fine down the chute but wouldn't reset on the deck. Didn't attempt another take off as assumed it would end in a uncontrollable nose high attitude. 


Edited by Indianajon
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10 hours ago, IronMike said:

Thank you, we'll look into it. This sounds like a bug indeed. Was this only after using ACLS?

Hi IronMike,  I have been experimenting a little this evening and I am not sure it is a bug sorry. Flying without ACLS switches works perfectly while flying with switches on is a real battle (I thought ACLS assistance only kicked in once you pressed nose wheel steering but it starts fighting as soon as you flip the switch so it's much harder to keep on glide slope etc). I'm guessing this is a me issue following the AP changes rather than a real issue.

Once on the deck the same issue repeated following using the ACLS switches but I realised that for some reasonon the deck the button bind for the A/P toggle doesn't register, rather you have to use the mouse. As soon as you mouse click it off the stabs can be reset using trim.

If it assists I can provide my log for 2 approaches. 1 with and 1 without but I think don't think it's a real bug.


Edited by Indianajon
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On 4/30/2022 at 12:23 PM, JupiterJoe said:

Engaging AP on the ground results in the plane trimming nose down automatically; you see the stick moving forward of its own accord when you throw the AP switch.  Is it supposed to do that? 

 

All I can think of is I remember reading somewhere that the aircraft is set with a slight nose up attitude trim setting on the deck to help getting you in the air. My guess is that as you wouldn't normally use the AP on the deck it isn't set with that in mind, therefore it might aim for a level flight attitude? 

I suppose the main question is why you would want to engage the AP on the deck?

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2 hours ago, Indianajon said:

All I can think of is I remember reading somewhere that the aircraft is set with a slight nose up attitude trim setting on the deck to help getting you in the air. My guess is that as you wouldn't normally use the AP on the deck it isn't set with that in mind, therefore it might aim for a level flight attitude? 

I suppose the main question is why you would want to engage the AP on the deck?

Throwing the AP switch on the ground was a workaround to fix the offset taileron trim issue caused by a recent patch (since rectified).  I've noticed that the stick moves back to trim nose up when the AP is activated whilst hooked-up to that catapult.  If this behaviour is accurately modelled then fabulous.  If it isn't, I wondered whether it might be indicative of a wider problem relating to recent AP issues.  I marvel at how complex the F-14's systems are and how accurately Heatblur are able to model them.  However, a slight issue with one system may impact related systems (including the one in the OP).


Edited by JupiterJoe
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Yes, I had this happen with a fully manual case 1, the elevators are at full nose up after landing. Didnt use autopilot,I did have altitude hold selected, but not engage. Didnt use auto throttle either.

Spectacular when I launched again, went in a very impressive pugachevs cobra. 😄

 

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Not sure if this is related, but when recently flying at night my speed dropped below about 150 knots in ALT HOLD and the tailerons gradually pitched hard nose-up and stayed there.  Switching off AP didn't help right away either.   I think I had to push the stick hard nose-down, to counteract it and then cycle the AP.  At 150 knots the ALT HOLD will struggle to maintain altitude and perhaps this is this some automatic anti-stall type system kicking-in, but pitching hard nose-up doesn't seem like a good solution when the pilot is trying to take manual control.  This behaviour feels similar to the off-set taileron problem we had before the last patch, when you had to cycle the AP on the ground as a workaround.


Edited by JupiterJoe
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So I had a go again today. It may be poor piloting on my part, but the way ive disengaged autopilot before is simply to move the joystick, not use the autopilot disengage which turns off part of the stab. So I did the former again today, and I felt it was making it difficult to trim. So I used the autopilot disengage button, manually flew the approach, it felt a bit easier to trim, and after landing, the elevators remained as normal.

Is it possible that part of the autopilot parameters, such as trim, are getting stuck, even after the pilot is deactivated? And its only the autopilot disconnect thats making it drop it? Just speculation on my part.

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Moving the stick doesn't disengage the AP but puts it in attitude hold mode. If you want to disengage the AP put the AP switch on the AFCS panel back to off. DON'T use the AP disconnect paddle, this is only for emergency and will also turn off pitch and roll SAS.

i5-8600k @4.9Ghz, 2080ti , 32GB@2666Mhz, 512GB SSD

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Also the trimming is done by AP when engaged, so you can't trim it yourself then. It'd be totally reasonable for AP to trim stabs fully nose up near stall speed. It's like Mike said - you can use AP whenever and however you want (ex. far outside of normal appliactions for it) but you have to deal with consequences yourself.

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So I made a discovery, if I have the autopilot channels and the autopilot on,whilst on the ground, when I press nosewheeel steering engage button, it will engage the autopilot, and hence the tailerons pitch up. Im guessing autopilot engage should be deactivated when on the ground?

 

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3 hours ago, stuart666 said:

Im guessing autopilot engage should be deactivated when on the ground?

The AP Engage switch can still be switched but shouldn't do anything on the ground. NWS/AP Ref button otoh should only control NWS when WOW.

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To be fair its probably not a great idea to have the autopilot in standby waiting to be engaged whilst on the ground, but even if one did, It seems difficult that this is a designed feature that it can conflict with the NWS.

Can anyone replicate this?

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