WinWing Orion 2 is a Disaster

[Dragon1-1]

Yes. Unfortunately, Winwing didn't account for the use case where you can turn some axes into switches, and put the knobs as axes in their place. Windows only allows 8 axes per HID device, which is another limitation, but that could possibly have been gotten around by using the 4x32 button mode. As far as software goes, SimAppPro sucks, which is a shame because the hardware is amazing. 

[stormrider2]

17 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Yes. Unfortunately, Winwing didn't account for the use case where you can turn some axes into switches, and put the knobs as axes in their place. Windows only allows 8 axes per HID device, which is another limitation, but that could possibly have been gotten around by using the 4x32 button mode. As far as software goes, SimAppPro sucks, which is a shame because the hardware is amazing. 

You can always use vJoy and Joystick Gremlin to split axes into different virtual devices.

[Dragon1-1]

If they support turning encoders into axes, then it can work, however the question was about SimAppPro, which doesn't feature that capability. 

[CaptHawk]

9 hours ago, stormrider2 said:

You can always use vJoy and Joystick Gremlin to split axes into different virtual devices.

Good solution. I use UCR with vjoy and it works perfectly. I only use simapppro for calibrating.

[EXPENDTripwire]

On 5/12/2022 at 2:05 AM, paschon said:

Winwing told me to loosen the screws of the lift mechanics. After using the divice for a few hours and loosen the screw the noise stopped for now.

No solution for the sporadically working "off" button.

I found that I couldn't get my left throttle to engage the off button at the end of the axis until I saw that the screw attaching the fingerlift mechanism to the left throttle was too long and fouling against the center idle detent. There was only about 1-2mm of motion that it couldn't move but it was enough to not reach that switch.

[RJLee]

I just received my Orion 2 throttle base + F/A-18 handles (part of an F-16EX stick bundle that was pre-ordered 4/11, paid for 5/4, arrived 5/18-19).  I'm coming from an early-batch Thrustmaster Warthog with stick extension, and so far I am thrilled.

That said, in the beginning I did run into some annoying issues, most of which had to do with the new finger-lift/detent assembly.  Just thought I'd share in case it's helpful to anyone (this mechanism is new to the Orion 2 and I wasn't able to find a lot of guidance outside this thread):

1.  Squeaky afterburner entry.  In the beginning mine was just as bad as Paschon's video.  As mentioned above, loosening the large screw that holds the noisy finger lift to the throttle arm solves this problem (mine was mostly on the larger starboard-side throttle handle).  Some trial and error is necessary -- too loose and the finger lift "striker" will rotate crookedly, and this will affect how it goes over the afterburner detent.

2.  Inconsistent push-through force for the afterburner detent.  With the screw in (1) properly loosened, each individual throttle handle passed pretty smoothly over the AB detent.  However, moving both throttle handles together sometimes required a lot more force (in some cases I found it nearly impossible to engage afterburner).  I think this has to do with the odd angle of pressure applied when your hand is on both throttles, combined with the loosened screws in (1).  What happens is that the finger-lift striker does not always hit the detent striking surface in the exactly the same way.  If you hit it just right, it goes over relatively smoothly.  If you don't, it jams.

The simple solution that seemed to work for me was to put a small piece of Scotch tape (ordinary non-glossy stuff found in office desk drawers everywhere) on the detent striking surface.  This reduced the plastic-on-plastic friction between the finger-lift striker and the detent plate so that it now doesn't matter if the striker hits it "wrong" -- it still slides through smoothly.  Now the motion is very similar to the 3D-printed push-through detent that I had on my Warthog throttle.  No doubt there are better approaches (silicone tape, plastic-safe lubricants, etc.) but this one is cheap and not very messy so I will try it for now.

3.  Jammed sync lock.  The sync lock is a small magnetic rod that you slide over to connect the two throttle handles together (for use in single-motor airplanes).  I understand that a common complaint with the Orion 1 was that the sync lock was too loose, leaving some annoying play between the connected throttles.  The Orion 2 may overcompensate a little bit by making the sync lock (which is built into the finger-lift assembly) very, very, very tight.  When I first assembled the throttle, the sync lock slot was slightly misaligned; it was very difficult to engage and very nearly impossible to disengage.

The WinWing assembly instructions tell you to engage the sync lock first before you attach the finger lifts to the throttle arms, but this understates the process.  I had to take everything back apart, loosen both finger lifts, hold them in alignment, and gradually tighten one screw by a little bit, test the sync lock, tighten another, test again, loosen the first, test again...  It's like attaching a cabinet door so the hinges line up.  When properly aligned the sync lock will still be tight, but it will engage and disengage fine.

Bonus tip:  When you first attach the Orion 2 detent plate to the throttle base, the instructions tell you to loosen the idle detent block and move it forward along the detent arc (in its natural position it is blocking one of the attachment screw holes).  I suggest not leaving the idle block loose in the detent arc -- tighten it in place right away.  The issue is that it is held in place with a very, very short screw and a very, very tiny square nut.  If you leave the idle block loose, that square nut literally hangs on one thread, and if you are unlucky it may come loose and fall into the throttle well.  If you are very unlucky, it will then roll into a round hole at the bottom of the well that is just large enough for it to fit, and disappear into the interior of your throttle base never to be seen again.  Keep a sharp eye on these tiny parts any time you are moving the detent blocks or attaching the space-sim center detent!

[CaptHawk]

Good bonus points info.

My Orion 2 must have come pre tuned

I didn't have any of the issues Paschon's had and still it's performing smooth. I wonder if some slipped through quality control check. It's possible, with the rush to get these out to customers, the unavoidable delays and all. All in all I'm very happy with the end product.

 

[RJLee]

So far I'm in love with mine.  Sometimes I just like to gaze at it, even when the rig is shut down, while it winks greenly at me.  It's unseemly.

I wouldn't describe anything that I've experienced as a quality control problem (no defective parts or the like).  It's more that the assembly process can be a little bit finicky.  The fixes mostly amount to tightening or loosening screws to one degree or another, which is something that I can handle (I am not very handy and would be unhappy if it required much more).  But of course I can't speak to the non-responsive idle button that Paschon reports (though if EXPENDTripwire is right about this being another screw alignment issue with the finger lifts, it would not surprise me).

Oddly enough, I was expecting the biggest problems to be with SimAppPro, and it's been fine for me.

Edited May 22, 2022 by RJLee

[EXPENDTripwire]

On 5/22/2022 at 5:31 AM, RJLee said:

I suggest not leaving the idle block loose in the detent arc -- tighten it in place right away.  The issue is that it is held in place with a very, very short screw and a very, very tiny square nut.  If you leave the idle block loose, that square nut literally hangs on one thread, and if you are unlucky it may come loose and fall into the throttle well.  If you are very unlucky, it will then roll into a round hole at the bottom of the well that is just large enough for it to fit, and disappear into the interior of your throttle base never to be seen again.

Yeah, mine did exactly that.. straight down into that hole.   The amount of thread holding that nut in place is minimal.

Had to pull the whole thing apart to find it.

[HLNinja]

I received my Orion 2 and it's squeaking when going from OFF to IDLE, anyone have a fix for this?

EDIT: Solved using vaseline, not a peep anymore.

Edited July 16, 2022 by HLNinja
vaseline

[Cathal Brugha]

On 7/15/2022 at 5:30 PM, HLNinja said:

I received my Orion 2 and it's squeaking when going from OFF to IDLE, anyone have a fix for this?

EDIT: Solved using vaseline, not a peep anymore.

 

You want to use a silicone based oil, like sewing machine oil if you need to lube your controllers. Petroleum based lubricants, like Vaseline, degrade plastic and attract dust.

[HLNinja]

1 hour ago, Cathal Brugha said:

You want to use a silicone based oil, like sewing machine oil if you need to lube your controllers. Petroleum based lubricants, like Vaseline, degrade plastic and attract dust.

Ok, I have WD-40 silicone spray on hand, I'll try it with that instead.

[einarabelc5]

I am left wondering how many of these problems are caused by either, rushing a product manufacturing to ship with no quality gate to inspect and send back, I'm thinking about how the better guitar brands do this. Or damage during shipment.

[einarabelc5]

On 5/11/2022 at 11:05 AM, paschon said:

But there is a weird function. If you turn off your PC, the backgroundlights continuou to shine. you have to unplug it from the USB port.

 

It must be running spyware in the background. After all, their new site says their hardware has a full blown processor, rather than an I/O chip

[DirtiByrd]

On 8/21/2022 at 7:46 AM, einarabelc5 said:

It must be running spyware in the background. After all, their new site says their hardware has a full blown processor, rather than an I/O chip

The lights stay on because you're plugged into a USB 3.2 port which allows for power passthrough for charging without the device being turned on. If your PSU is plugged in, power will flow through to the device causing the lights to remain on. Plug it into a USB 2.0 port and it won't stay lit after shutdown. 

[einarabelc5]

15 minutes ago, DirtiByrd said:

The lights stay on because you're plugged into a USB 3.2 port which allows for power passthrough for charging without the device being turned on. If your PSU is plugged in, power will flow through to the device causing the lights to remain on. Plug it into a USB 2.0 port and it won't stay lit after shutdown. 

It was a joke

[DirtiByrd]

2 minutes ago, einarabelc5 said:

It was a joke

I know I laughed

[einarabelc5]

7 hours ago, DirtiByrd said:

I know I laughed

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I'll keep the pass-through feature in mind for next time. It makes sense because smartphones and whatnot.

[CybrSlydr]

So, how would you rate the Orion2 vs a Thrustmaster Cougar?  

Seriously considering upgrading my stick and throttle to this F16EX system of theirs.

[McNasty_UK]

Had my Orion 2 for 2 weeks now and some of the above " issues" I have noticed has led me here.

Off/ idle switch. Its in the calibration. Set to idle and calibrate from there. On the Simm App Pro it shows when the switches for idle and off are on/ off. They wont work correctly if you calibrate from the Off position.  Then in DCS you can map these two positions. Its a case of RTFM which at first I didn't. Doh!

 

Yes the finger lifts aren't too ergonomic and creak slightly. Not a big problem.

In VR I also noticed rh moved easier than lh. Bit more tension added.

 

At first to go to AB the finger lifts had to be used. I liked this. However now its bedded in its a push- through and Yes rh goes easier than lh.

I'm not sure about real aircraft if this is correct but I'd prefer to need to use the lifts  so's I know I'm just out of AB or Not.

I do like the realism of needing finger lifts but at $£€¥50 I feel kinda cheated when they cant be used as a solid stop for AB. I have a 3D printer & Fusion 360. Might redesign the AB detent and print my own.

Which brings me to.. Yes beware the detent square nut and screw are V short. I too needed needle nose pliers to rescue the nut. 

Yes it will stay lit when the PC is off if in a USB3 port.

 

. The App Pro software is Ok for calibration but does like WinWing ONLY usb devices plugged in when upgrading firmware. I unplug from my rig and use a laptop. The AG & AA buttons only light if App pro is on. What's that all about ? Still not an issue in VR.

Do I regret buying Orion 2 ? 

Hell no!

It's well made, double boxed, solid and configurable to  F16/FA18/ Helo. F/A 18 switches are realistic and become 2nd nature when you get going.

It cost more than TM's offering but imho worth the extra beans...although I'd think twice about the finger lifts if you already bought without.

[rob10]

6 hours ago, McNasty_UK said:

The AG & AA buttons only light if App pro is on. What's that all about ? Still not an issue in VR.
.........[snip].........

It cost more than TM's offering but imho worth the extra beans...although I'd think twice about the finger lifts if you already bought without.

The AG and AA lights require the SimAppPro to be running in the background to SYNC the lighting between DCS and the throttle.  Without it, the throttle has no way to know what the setting is in game.  I guess it could be designed to toggle on press within the throttle itself, but then it would get out of sync with the game very easily (i.e. you get blown up in a dogfight and it was ON in the game and ON on the throttle and if you don't press it before you relaunched into a mission it would be OFF in game and ON on your throttle.  The current setup with SimAppPro controlling it means that it will be automatically set to the same on your throttle as it is in game when you relaunch your flight in this case).  Somewhat related, if you don't want to run the SimAppPro in the background you can set the AA and AG lights to be ALWAY ON within the setup.

My Ver 1 Orion throttle replaced a TMWH (for the push through detents and better switch options) and I completely agree that it's head and shoulders above it in most ways.

Edited December 10, 2022 by rob10

[Phantom711]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb McNasty_UK:

It cost more than TM's offering but imho worth the extra beans...although I'd think twice about the finger lifts if you already bought without.

One has zero detents for AB or IDLE if you buy it without the fingerlifts. Not really cool, if you fly jets in DCS.

 

BTW: As far as I know, one doesn‘t need to pull the fingerlifts in the Hornet when going into AB (in the air) and I find the „stop“ and additional force required on the Orion2 absolutely sufficient for this kind of product.

[Aussie Pilot]

Hi everyone, Happy New Year!

So, my Orion2 and F/A 18 Throttle & Stick are just days away from arriving. Thank you all for the input in the thread, a good heads up for me.

Not having received it yet, I believe gives me a get out of jail free card for a possible dumb question.

Do you have to use the SimAppPro in order to use this kit or can you just programme direct to DCS key and axis bindings? 

[Phantom711]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Aussie Pilot:

Hi everyone, Happy New Year!

So, my Orion2 and F/A 18 Throttle & Stick are just days away from arriving. Thank you all for the input in the thread, a good heads up for me.

Not having received it yet, I believe gives me a get out of jail free card for a possible dumb question.

Do you have to use the SimAppPro in order to use this kit or can you just programme direct to DCS key and axis bindings? 

You need SimAppPro to calibrate the throttle initially and also to decide on some other options for some buttons.

after that you can just manually bind all buttons and axis in DCS.

[StarVenger]

Happy customer here  was using VKB Gunfighter ultimate and/or VPC Constellation Alpha with VPC t-50cm3 and Thrustmaster Warthog throttle and stick before that. Was not a fan of the suction cups though, so I screwed them down to the desk  SimAppPro was very helpful in setting up the various afterburners of the jets. The stick shaker of the F-16EX is good enough too.