Jump to content

"SA-2" uses wrong missile, not the only issue.


Koty

Recommended Posts

Hello,

There is a problem with the current implementation of "SA-2", I've decided to make a post on this topic at last, I just wasn't sure if this should be mentioned here or in the sim research section.

First of, the missile. Looking at the artwork for the tracking radar, this belongs to the S-75M Volchov system, these were compatible with 20D missiles and later. Currently used is 11D (known as V-750). It could be assumed that only the artwork is wrong (with clearly stated 11Д on the booster section, and painted all silver) however it is possible the coding is inconsistent as well, as the missiles differed from one another in many respects. Correct visuals for the 20D series is this (although more photos can be found online):
20DSU.jpg

This specifically being a 20DSU, with improved low-altitude performance and shortened to-ready time (from 90s to 20s), what would change among these is just the serial number including different prefix. Note also single radio-transparent window around the tip of the missile as well as four "ribs" with antennas for the radio-fuse in front of the main wings.

Basic performance chart for this family of missiles (includes earlier systems, Dvina and Desna, and information on missile/fuel/warhead masses, motor thrusts in basic regimes - 20D had variable thrust, and even resistance to EW, namely missiles beacon strength and fuse resistivity to both active and passive jamming):

03911504yujdc.jpg

V-755 (B-755) missiles are of interest here.
Besides these the 5Ya23 (5я23) was used, marked as V-759 or 23D as well. This entered service in early-mid 70s intended against highly manoeuvrable targets. 

5Ya23 looks a bit different, the radio transparent window is different, and instead of 4 ribs, the antennas are a single pair between yellow windows on the side of the nose:

article_5e6cbe6b7912f2_31629723.jpg

(Note 5Ya23 at the start of the serial number)

Note also the different launcher (SM-90 as opposed to SM-63) needed:

640px-S-75M_Wo%C5%82chow.jpg

 

Current missile choice, being V-750 (11D), would belong to the oldest SA-75 system. The correct radar set, RSNA-75:
Ho so chien tich ten lua phong khong S-75 (1)-Hinh-14

Note the top parabolic antenna intended to look for the missile beacons. Later variants got rid of it and use the main radars for the purpose.

It would be also compatible with RSNA-75M, of SA-75M Dvina, which got rid of the top antenna. This was in service, during 1970s, equipped with "dog-house" on top of the radar set for visual observer:

SOV - SA-75 Dvina [kód NATO: SA-2 Guideline] : SSSR / Nástupnické státy  SSSR (SOV)

 

 

In addition, it is missing auxiliary objects (present for example for HAWK system) necessary for its running - namely the main command post of the battery (the U-cabin) from which whole site is controlled - with the exception of visual observer on top of the radar set, noone actually sits inside of it, everyone is in trailers connected to it. The site also requires an inverter cabin and a set of 100W diesel-electric generators - however these can be omitted as outside combat the site is plugged into standard 3x220V electric grid.

As there are still plenty former operators of these systems around I believe it would not be too difficult to confirm all the details.


Edited by Koty
  • Like 7
  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team
On 5/1/2022 at 1:50 PM, Koty said:

Hello,

There is a problem with the current implementation of "SA-2", I've decided to make a post on this topic at last, I just wasn't sure if this should be mentioned here or in the sim research section.

First of, the missile. Looking at the artwork for the tracking radar, this belongs to the S-75M Volchov system, these were compatible with 20D missiles and later. Currently used is 11D (known as V-750). It could be assumed that only the artwork is wrong (with clearly stated 11Д on the booster section, and painted all silver) however it is possible the coding is inconsistent as well, as the missiles differed from one another in many respects. Correct visuals for the 20D series is this (although more photos can be found online):
20DSU.jpg

This specifically being a 20DSU, with improved low-altitude performance and shortened to-ready time (from 90s to 20s), what would change among these is just the serial number including different prefix. Note also single radio-transparent window around the tip of the missile as well as four "ribs" with antennas for the radio-fuse in front of the main wings.

Basic performance chart for this family of missiles (includes earlier systems, Dvina and Desna, and information on missile/fuel/warhead masses, motor thrusts in basic regimes - 20D had variable thrust, and even resistance to EW, namely missiles beacon strength and fuse resistivity to both active and passive jamming):

03911504yujdc.jpg

V-755 (B-755) missiles are of interest here.
Besides these the 5Ya23 (5я23) was used, marked as V-759 or 23D as well. This entered service in early-mid 70s intended against highly manoeuvrable targets. 

5Ya23 looks a bit different, the radio transparent window is different, and instead of 4 ribs, the antennas are a single pair between yellow windows on the side of the nose:

article_5e6cbe6b7912f2_31629723.jpg

(Note 5Ya23 at the start of the serial number)

Note also the different launcher (SM-90 as opposed to SM-63) needed:

640px-S-75M_Wo%C5%82chow.jpg

 

Current missile choice, being V-750 (11D), would belong to the oldest SA-75 system. The correct radar set, RSNA-75:
Ho so chien tich ten lua phong khong S-75 (1)-Hinh-14

Note the top parabolic antenna intended to look for the missile beacons. Later variants got rid of it and use the main radars for the purpose.

It would be also compatible with RSNA-75M, of SA-75M Dvina, which got rid of the top antenna. This was in service, during 1970s, equipped with "dog-house" on top of the radar set for visual observer:

SOV - SA-75 Dvina [kód NATO: SA-2 Guideline] : SSSR / Nástupnické státy  SSSR (SOV)

 

 

In addition, it is missing auxiliary objects (present for example for HAWK system) necessary for its running - namely the main command post of the battery (the U-cabin) from which whole site is controlled - with the exception of visual observer on top of the radar set, noone actually sits inside of it, everyone is in trailers connected to it. The site also requires an inverter cabin and a set of 100W diesel-electric generators - however these can be omitted as outside combat the site is plugged into standard 3x220V electric grid.

As there are still plenty former operators of these systems around I believe it would not be too difficult to confirm all the details.

 



I have made a report for the team to investigate. 

thanks

  • Thanks 1

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please give our air defence some love 🥺 The ability for the site to alternate between tracking modes based on target behaviour (as well as radio fuze selection) would also be a huge plus. Many DCS players have learnt to simply drive missiles into the ground... against any trained crew with this system, that really should not be possible. They would switch to K mode or three point rather than let the missile fly into the dirt.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...