Varjo Aero: General guide for new owners

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Jarhead0331 said:

Strange new problem since the update today. Image and performance are still good, but there is some strange distortion when I move my head that is very difficult to describe. Its almost like the image itself is slightly moving. It is subtle, but very disorienting. I re-installed the open composite files. No other changes.

Sorry if I'm not explaining the problem well, but I'm not sure how to describe it.

Anyone else having issues since the update?

 

Flew the Apache for quite a while after the update and did not notice any negative affects. However I am not running any mod, running through native Steam VR and Varjo Base.

[Jarhead0331]

39 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Flew the Apache for quite a while after the update and did not notice any negative affects. However I am not running any mod, running through native Steam VR and Varjo Base.

It appears to have been the swap top and bottom image distortion problem that was solved by running the WMR debug tool. I don't know why this was necessary all of a sudden since I've been using the Aero for awhile without this issue. Weird.

[Supmua]

14 hours ago, Jarhead0331 said:

Strange new problem since the update today. Image and performance are still good, but there is some strange distortion when I move my head that is very difficult to describe. Its almost like the image itself is slightly moving. It is subtle, but very disorienting. I re-installed the open composite files. No other changes.

Sorry if I'm not explaining the problem well, but I'm not sure how to describe it.

Anyone else having issues since the update?

Did some short flights and OpenXR mode is more stuttery now when you look 90 degree left or right outside and down at the ground.  Steam OpenVR mode on the other hand is pretty smooth with motion blur ground effect, and this is without fps lock.  Try Steam OpenVR mode and see if you have similar experiences.  This is just prelim findings though, I haven't had the time to do long play.

I also tried Varjo OpenVR and it's still doing quad rendering.  The image quality is insane but you still get double mouse cursor in cockpit and when you move your head around things becomes disorienting because I don't think it (quad rendering) is implemented correctly.  Are you sure you weren't in this mode instead of OpenXR?  Take off the headset and look at the monitor, if you see quad mirrors then it's Varjo OpenVR mode.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Supmua

[rvgriff]

2 hours ago, Supmua said:

Did some short flights and OpenXR mode is more stuttery now when you look 90 degree left or right outside and down at the ground.  Steam OpenVR mode on the other hand is pretty smooth with motion blur ground effect, and this is without fps lock.  Try Steam OpenVR mode and see if you have similar experiences.  This is just prelim findings though, I haven't had the time to do long play.

I also tried Varjo OpenVR and it's still doing quad rendering.  The image quality is insane but you still get double mouse cursor in cockpit and when you move your head around things becomes disorienting because I don't think it (quad rendering) is implemented correctly.  Are you sure you weren't in this mode instead of OpenXR?  Take off the headset and look at the monitor, if you see quad mirrors then it's Varjo OpenVR mode.

 

Opened a dev ticket with Varjo and they said that VB does not control rendering and the application will call for quad or stereo.  Any ideas on what config may be kicking it off in DCS?

 

On a positive note I figured out what was causing all of my issues using Steam VR.  All I had to do was drop the resolution down in Steam for the displays and I was able to get the FPS to a reasonable level.  It is still nowhere close to the FPS I could get at a higher res using Varjo VR.

Apparently the app will make one of of the calls below that will determine how the VB renders the display.

Edited July 22, 2022 by rvgriff

[Supmua]

4 minutes ago, rvgriff said:

Opened a dev ticket with Varjo and they said that VB does not control rendering and the application will call for quad or stereo.  Any ideas on was config may be kicking it off in DCS?

 

On a positive note I figured out what was causing all of my issues using Steam VR.  All I had to do was drop the resolution down in Steam for the displays and I was able to get the FPS to a reasonable level.  It is still nowhere close to the FPS I could get at a higher res using Varjo VR.

null

 

As of now DCS uses quad mode if you run it straight from the .exe as stated in my very 1st post.  Very easy to check by either take off the headset and look at your PC monitor or bring up Steam overlay and check the VR mirror that way.  You can forget about foveation for now as the only app that truly supports this is the Varjo Workspace.  Remember that DCS software itself is quite old and most people also don’t play in VR, so don’t expect any cutting edge VR tech unless it’s hacked in.

[Jarhead0331]

My FPS is solid. I almost never drop below 50 and typically fly in the high 60s to mid 70s+. However, since the last update, I now have a strange stutter when I move my head, but it only lasts for a minute or two after the mission has loaded and then it disappears. Any thoughts on what could cause this temporary issue? it is strange because even when it is stuttering, my FPS is still well above 50 and it is only noticeable when I move my head, so I do not think it is  performance issue or bottleneck with settings.

Thanks!

 

EDIT: stupid follow up question, does steamvr need to be running in order for the base stations to track the headset? If not, this could be the source of my problem, as I’m running in openxr, but still have steamvr running, which seems to defeat the purpose.

 

EDIT2: Wow, that's embarrassing. Upon testing, I see that SteamVR does not need to run in order for the Aero to track the base stations. Shutting down SteamVR has yielded favorable results on the stuttering issue. Sorry I sound like a noob. I'm coming from a G2 which did not require base stations, although, I also have a Pimax 8KX, which does, although that headset tracks through the Pitool. I come from the school of thought that has the philosophy of avoiding SteamVR at all costs.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Jarhead0331

[Gordy]

From working with Varjo on some things - Varjo base will automatically fire up the SteamVR bits it needs for the base stations to perform head tracking; Steam VR does not need to be running when you launch an application, regardless of whether you're running OpenVR or OpenXR

[fastf1nger]

Does it make any difference what settings we use inside the SteamVR settings?
Or is everything controlled by Varjo Base itself?

Still trying to figure out which combinations of settings (Varjo Base - NVidia Control Panel - DCS)
will work best right now. And if SteamVR is cutting in between......

[dburne]

6 hours ago, fastf1nger said:

Does it make any difference what settings we use inside the SteamVR settings?
Or is everything controlled by Varjo Base itself?

Still trying to figure out which combinations of settings (Varjo Base - NVidia Control Panel - DCS)
will work best right now. And if SteamVR is cutting in between......

 

Well Steam VR's resolution setting certainly works on top of your Varjo Base resolution you have set for the Aero. Motion smoothing does not.

[fastf1nger]

vor einer Stunde schrieb dburne:

 

Well Steam VR's resolution setting certainly works on top of your Varjo Base resolution you have set for the Aero. Motion smoothing does not.

Do you use the default SteamVR settings? Varjo Base at 35ppd (standard) wouldn´t do any up- or downscaling then....right?

[dburne]

1 minute ago, fastf1nger said:

Do you use the default SteamVR settings? Varjo Base at 35ppd (standard) wouldn´t do any up- or downscaling then....right?

I use Varjo Base at Medium and Steam VR res at 100%. Yes you can up or downscale over your current Varjo Base setting with Steam VR, either globally or with a profile for the game in Steam VR.

[Supmua]

Did anyone notice performance improvement after the last update?  Apache Caucasus runway start, my fps is mid 50s on the runway.  Even Syria hotstart the frametime is 21ms on the runway which mean fps 47-48, it's a noticeable improvement albeit a minor one--it dips below 45 during hovering takeoff but pretty much 50s once I'm fully up in the air.  I never had fps above 45 on the runway in Syria in the past.  Haven't changed any settings in a long time, this is Steam OpenVR btw.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Supmua

[dburne]

11 hours ago, Supmua said:

Did anyone notice performance improvement after the last update?  Apache Caucasus runway start, my fps is mid 50s on the runway.  Even Syria hotstart the frametime is 21ms on the runway which mean fps 47-48, it's a noticeable improvement albeit a minor one--it dips below 45 during hovering takeoff but pretty much 50s once I'm fully up in the air.  I never had fps above 45 on the runway in Syria in the past.  Haven't changed any settings in a long time, this is Steam OpenVR btw.

 

Yeah maybe a little now that you mention it. Also running in Steam VR.

[WelshZeCorgi]

Is there a performance difference between openVR and openXR?

[Supmua]

On 8/8/2022 at 2:00 PM, WelshZeCorgi said:

Is there a performance difference between openVR and openXR?

Haven’t switched recently so no idea.  In the past it’s been around 1ms frametime which isn’t much for me considering the cons of not being to use Steam overlay, Reshade, desktop in windows, fpsVR, etc.  My StemVR performance is quite good right now, free flight Caucasus with the Harrier I get up to 60-68 fps depending on the area on the map (and I just need 45).  We don’t have the exact same setup and tuning so you may or may not see similar results.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Supmua

[WelshZeCorgi]

the headset keeps crashing in OpenXR

Edited August 14, 2022 by WelshZeCorgi

[Supmua]

On 8/13/2022 at 10:38 PM, WelshZeCorgi said:

the headset keeps crashing in OpenXR

 

Try to remove all the mods you might have and run repair DCS.  Then drag the openvr_api.dll in the attached zip from the very first post into the \bin folder, if that still doesn't work drag the other 2 files in as well.

I switched to OpenXR this weekend to do some comparison, no issue.  The GPU frametime number is actually the exact same as what I got from OpenVR mode (using OXRTK and fpsVR, respectively), the only difference is that OpenXR feels smoother.  This was Apache hot start Syria low flying, so it's fairly taxing to the system and I was able to maintain >45 fps most of the time in both modes.  I think OpenXR inherently has better reprojection algorithm vs OpenVR in general (especially seen with MSFS where low fps still results in minimal stuttering).  However, after doing fps lock in OpenVR it's pretty much the same smoothness (not 90 fps smooth, but 45 fps smooth).  For gameplay that expects <45 fps though, OpenXR may be a better way to play.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Supmua

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Supmua said:

Try to remove all the mods you might have and run repair DCS.  Then drag the openvr_api.dll in the attached zip from the very first post into the \bin folder, if that still doesn't work drag the other 2 files in as well.

I switched to OpenXR this weekend to do some comparison, no issue.  The GPU frametime number is actually the exact same as what I got from OpenVR mode (using OXRTK and fpsVR, respectively), the only difference is that OpenXR feels smoother.  This was Apache hot start Syria low flying, so it's fairly taxing to the system and I was able to maintain >45 fps most of the time in both modes.  I think OpenXR inherently has better reprojection algorithm vs OpenVR in general (especially seen with MSFS where low fps still results in minimal stuttering).  However, after doing fps lock in OpenVR it's pretty much the same smoothness (not 90 fps smooth, but 45 fps smooth).  For gameplay that expects <45 fps though, OpenXR may be a better way to play.

 

 

I though Aero currently has no support for motion reprojection?

[WelshZeCorgi]

I swapped to OpenVR, seems to work better, BUT every minute or so, there is a huge lag spike that lasts about a second. Not sure what is causing that, but it is difficult to maintain formation when it keeps happening. Any suggestions? running 3090Ti 64GB of ram and Ryzen 9 5950x, so I don't think its the pc specs

[Supmua]

13 minutes ago, WelshZeCorgi said:

I swapped to OpenVR, seems to work better, BUT every minute or so, there is a huge lag spike that lasts about a second. Not sure what is causing that, but it is difficult to maintain formation when it keeps happening. Any suggestions? running 3090Ti 64GB of ram and Ryzen 9 5950x, so I don't think its the pc specs

You should be able to get better framerate than mine with that specs. Make sure to minimize or get rid of unneeded background processes (LED light control, etc.), and optimize your windows settings for gaming.  Avoid going crazy on overclocking, you want stability with sustained performance rather than peak performance. 

[WelshZeCorgi]

I googled it and it suggests that it is a high ping or packet loss issue. I'll have to play single player and see if the lag spike issue isn't there. 

[Supmua]

45 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

I though Aero currently has no support for motion reprojection?

No motion smoothing/compensation stuff but it’s still gotta fill in the missing frames to hit 90 in one sec. 

12 minutes ago, WelshZeCorgi said:

I googled it and it suggests that it is a high ping or packet loss issue. I'll have to play single player and see if the lag spike issue isn't there. 

Yeah try SP first to make sure it’s not the problem with your setup. 

[Supmua]

BTW, MSFS depth reprojection option helps eliminate cockpit tearing during horizontal movement, and also proves that motion smoothing can also be done from the game setting itself although probably not as good as headset-specific setting provided by HMD company. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Supmua

[dburne]

7 hours ago, Supmua said:

No motion smoothing/compensation stuff but it’s still gotta fill in the missing frames to hit 90 in one sec. 

 

This is somewhat confusing for me, but I am easily confused especially as I keep getting older lol. I will just try to share my thoughts and what I have understood about this.

As I understand it the whole point of filling in the missing frames it order to hit 90 is what is called motion reprojection or as Steam calls it motion smoothing. Or even motion prediction. The missing frames are predicted and interpolated every other frame for the missed frames. So it will drop the fps to 45 fps but fill in the missing frames to equal 90 fps.  So if that is going on then what is the difference? Without reprojection yes we are missing those frames hence the stuttering. But as the frames get higher the stuttering is less noticeable. That is how I perceive it in my Aero. At 45 fps I see some stuttering. As framerates increase the stuttering starts to decrease. The missing frames are still there but the timing increases so they appear to be less. I try to share my thoughts in the simplest of terms. 

Maybe I have this all wrong however that is how I have always perceived reprojection versus no reprojection to work basically. In the case of say MSFS 2020 with the Open XR Developer Tools, one can even run Motion Reprojection for headsets that support it, with 2 frames being interpolated for every 1 frame. Which really helps in a flight sim that demanding. 

[Supmua]

12 hours ago, dburne said:

This is somewhat confusing for me, but I am easily confused especially as I keep getting older lol. I will just try to share my thoughts and what I have understood about this.

As I understand it the whole point of filling in the missing frames it order to hit 90 is what is called motion reprojection or as Steam calls it motion smoothing. Or even motion prediction. The missing frames are predicted and interpolated every other frame for the missed frames. So it will drop the fps to 45 fps but fill in the missing frames to equal 90 fps.  So if that is going on then what is the difference? Without reprojection yes we are missing those frames hence the stuttering. But as the frames get higher the stuttering is less noticeable. That is how I perceive it in my Aero. At 45 fps I see some stuttering. As framerates increase the stuttering starts to decrease. The missing frames are still there but the timing increases so they appear to be less. I try to share my thoughts in the simplest of terms. 

Maybe I have this all wrong however that is how I have always perceived reprojection versus no reprojection to work basically. In the case of say MSFS 2020 with the Open XR Developer Tools, one can even run Motion Reprojection for headsets that support it, with 2 frames being interpolated for every 1 frame. Which really helps in a flight sim that demanding. 

As far as I know, SteamVR motion smoothing works by taking into account of 3 things: headset rotation, headset position, and other object positions (it’s also not depth aware unless they added that in recently).  When this option is off and fps is consistently below 90 it goes into old reprojection mode might be called interleaved or something which has no motion/position support to make the game playable without inducing nausea or eye strain (missing or dropped frames don’t always occur at consistent intervals).  Not sure how OpenXR works but apparently better, with depth support as well but I don’t think DCS has depth output.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Supmua