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How bad are the R530?


Dirty Rotten Flieger

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I'm a fan of bad missiles in DCS. I love a fight where both sides launch multiple missiles and they all miss or are decoyed and the fight goes from longer range missiles, to short range missiles, to guns... Longer fights with lots of weapons deployed are great for game play.  Compare that to both sides launching a single BVR Fox3 and going evasive and then both die anyway... 

How good or bad are the regular 530 compared to the Super 530?  How do they compare to the Soviet R23 Mig 23 carried.

 

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The original R530 is pretty much late 1950's / early 1960's tech, while the R-23 was 60's-70's, so in theory, it should be worse, but a lot of variables could change that. Don't know either one of these missiles too well, but i'd hazard a guess the 530 is worse
The super 530 D we have on the M2000 is a really really good missile if you get into range. the R530 will struggle with hitting fighters, being meant mostly for bombers, so even under perfect conditions, if the target defends properly, the missile is likely to miss

I also feel it's necessary to take what i said with a grain of salt, i don't know much about the R530 specifically


Edited by BonerCat
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Modules:

F-14, F-15C, F-16C, F/A-18C, M-2000C, A-10C, A-10C II, AV-8B N/A, MiG-29, Su-33, MiG-21 Bis, F-5E, P-51D, Ka-50, Mi-8, Sa 342, UH-1H, Combined Arms

 

Maps and others:

Persian Gulf, Syria, Normandy, WWII Assets, NS 430 + Mi-8 NS 430

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My understanding is that they had short shelf lives and that might have impacted upon their general effectiveness.  The Super 530s were entirely new missiles and were roughly on par with the AIM-7F and -M.  Maybe 10nm head on at high closure for the R530.  It's very hard to separate out the poor performance of the weapon from the performance of the early radars that were guiding the semi active variant.  The IR variant was rear aspect only and might be usable out to 3nm.  Like a really big AIM-9B.

I find it hard to make predictions about how it will stack up in the game against the Flogger's Fox-1s.  Kinematically I'd expect to see the R-23/-24 to perform a bit better than the R.530.  There are other factors that come into play though.  Most Floggers IRL had poor look-down capability, much like the early Cyrano IV.  If that's true in DCS (and this is a massive if, as I believe that most AI have unrealistically high LD stats), then a range disadvantage may not be too hard to offset with some situational awareness and good tactical sense.  However if in this case our Flogger AI has the ability to track and launch on things 20,000ft below and 20nm in front of him, life's going to be harder than it should be.

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Part of why the 530 blew (as far as I can tell with my limited understanding of technical French) is a combination of radar-tech (Cyrano Ibis, IIA and IV in different flavours of Mirages), a relatively short max and relatively long min range. Hence the effective firing window was pretty narrow and therefore the plausible chance of getting one off the rails in time was..iffy.

Then there's the part of guidance, which also seemed not too great at all.

You'll probably fly with tip-Sidewinders only, most of the time. Not like the kewl kids in WT, flying around in unapproved loadouts (e.g. centerline 530 paired with wing (Super)530s). IRL, you'd either take a centerline 530 or two wing 530s, but not both.

Still hoping for the Super 530F, which I hope will at least be available by chosing France, as the CE and C were virtually identical. The C did carry 530Fs. Not sure if Spain bought them for the CE/ EE or if they only came with the Quatari F1EDA jets.

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So ein Feuerball, JUNGE!

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I hadn't realised the r530 was meant for killing bombers. That makes sense. I was thinking of this F1 as a rival of the Mig23 but a closer look at the specs reveal that the F1 only has engine power closer to the Mig21.  And the Mig21 bis has emergency AB on top.  So this will more typically be flown with 2 or 4 Sidewinders if the r530 are not gonna do much against low flying fighters opponent. Heaters, guns and burners.  Perfect for Cold war servers. 

I love that the F1 can fly on red or blue with historical authenticity.  Iraqi skins and can red get a new plane. 

 

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Yeah I would expect something in the ballpark of the R-3R on the Mig-21 but less maneuverable. You may sneak front aspect kills once in a while, but I mostly expect it to be pretty mediocre against other fighters.

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In the Israeli air force Mirage IIIc R530 were considered pretty useless. They flew with it for a short period, and as far as I know only got a one kill on an unsuspecting Mig-19 from dead 6 chase position. It was rarely carried in operations, if at all.


Edited by Bozon

“Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly:

- Geoffrey de Havilland.

 

... well, he could have said it!

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The R530 will very much be a "better than nothing" missile, think R3R with a longer range but slower off the rail.
R530E (IR guidance) is rumored to have limited all aspect at high altitude on a hot target, similar to the british Red Top. although this is something you shouldnt be counting on. Once you're in the merge you would probably be best suited dropping the 530s off with your fuel tank.


Edited by Get_Lo
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Yeah mostly what folks here have said.

A big part of some of its issues are the actual guidance radars not being very good. Given that we are getting the Cyrano IVM (IIRC we get the M). That should be a pretty decent radar as it was the most modern one fitted IIRC. Then for the actual 530 is a con-scan seeker, so it shouldn't be very good and easy to decoy. The Super 530 should be pretty good in look up, but both should struggle in look down modes. 

Compared to the R-23 which actually had a monopulse seeker the original 530 and super530F should both be inferior in lookdown. The 530D was the first of that series with a monopulse seeker. 

The IR 530 should be interesting, limited all aspect as folks have said kinda like the AIM-4, or Red Top. Unfortunately DCS doesn't model the actual seeker performance like this i.e. it should only be all aspect against supersonic targets since they generate a bow shock which is very visible to certain types of seekers.

 

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9 hours ago, Zergburger said:

forgive me for being late to the topic, is it confirmed the -CE will be getting the R-530 and not the Super 530F?

I think nothing is confirmed, we can only wait and see.

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

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On 5/16/2022 at 4:38 PM, Zergburger said:

forgive me for being late to the topic, is it confirmed the -CE will be getting the R-530 and not the Super 530F?

The only one confirmed to get S530F is the Mirage F1M, Hopefully Aerges will back-port the Super 530F onto the other versions since they plan to model it anyways, I cant think of a reason not to, and of course, it would just be very cool 🙂

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