DD_FT Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 DCS I-16 intermittent controls issue – Pauses In stable version as well as in OpenBeta. Short: During flight, the controls (Joystick, button box, rudder pedals, keys – F1-F2) have a delay, intermittently, sometimes just very short instances, sometimes longer. Only with the I-16. Not when using Spitfire, P51, Mosquito, A4EC. Controllers: - Ms FFB 2 stick – Twist removed, added a brake lever instead. - Custom home built button box, based on Bodnar board. Also Rudder pedals, Throttle, Pitch and others… - TrackIR Like: Move stick left: the stick stops moving along the way, to jump to the correct position half a second later. Though this can be shorter or longer. This also occurs with keyboard inputs, you’re on externals (F2) and want to switch back to inside (F1) – Hit F1 … nothing. Hit it again, it might take, or not, need to press it again. Same with Map, open it via button or keyboard (if it does open), next close it, might need to wait and press again… When the issue occurs during firing of guns, let go of trigger, but guns keep firing, for a bit. TrackIR does not show any interruptions. All smooth. It is rather intermittent, can work fine for some time, as in some seconds, or several minutes. It could come back. Have seen it before, can’t tell when it started. It’s intermittent. Frame rates are good – over 100 during the tests. This happens in our custom mission on our dedicated server, but also in Instant Action, and single mission. Have not seen it happen on the ground yet, only in flight. But yeah, time flies inflight, and so, more time is spent in flight than on the ground. The I-16 is being started using the autostart procedure (cheat!) Have tried, (in OpenBeta) without any positive result – all makes no difference: · File check, complete, removing extra files (DCS-SRS) · Removing the I-16, adding it back in · Cleared controls for FFB and Button box to default for Axis and, re-assigned them. · Clear Keyboard controls, re-assigned default. · Added the DCS folders (including the Saved Games folders) as exception to BitDefender. DCS Log files do not show any errors that I can relate to the issue. Windows Event Viewer shows no errors or messages. Running fine on this system: IL2 GBS, whether it’s a/c or tanks. W10 Pro, 21H2, i7 7800K@4.2GHZ, 32GB of RAM, Nvida 1080ti (latest driver), several SSD’s. BitDefender runs. I drive a 2009 Ford Focus. It’s light blue. I do not own a house, I rent. Yeah, that’s how lost I am with this issue. Any suggestions for me to try and either fix this, or gets me closer to what is causing this? Anybody else having this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 Update: I've switched off HyperThreading in BIOS settings, and it appears to be much better. 'Flew' for like one and a half hours, have not seen it happen again. No idea why or how this change could be related to the issue, but at the moment, it's what did happen. Will keep updating this thread with new developments. Should there be any... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 Switching off HyperThreading did not fix it, it still occurs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachmonkey Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 it's a confusing issue for sure. I'd try the following: 1) unplug all of your HOTAS (joystick/throttle/rudder/everything) 2) remove all control assignments for each HOTAS device, i.e. blank them all out 3) start I16 in the air and control it with your mouse a) if the issue disappears then there's some physical conflict in buttons/assignments. Try adding a single HOTAS at a time (for example: throttle only) without control assignments. If no issues - assign controls to it. Then keep adding other devices until you run into the issue again b) if the issue persists then go to Device Manager/Human Interface drivers and start disabling all of the USB devices one by one, i.e: - disable one then launch I16, if issue continues then re-enable it - disable the next device, launch i16, issue continues = re-enable it back - etc.. Question: when you said you removed I16 did you make sure all of its .lua files were gone? If not, maybe start with that first, i.e. remove i16, then clean all of its files from the DCS installation folder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 23, 2022 Author Share Posted May 23, 2022 2 hours ago, peachmonkey said: it's a confusing issue for sure. I'd try the following: 1) unplug all of your HOTAS (joystick/throttle/rudder/everything) 2) remove all control assignments for each HOTAS device, i.e. blank them all out 3) start I16 in the air and control it with your mouse a) if the issue disappears then there's some physical conflict in buttons/assignments. Try adding a single HOTAS at a time (for example: throttle only) without control assignments. If no issues - assign controls to it. Then keep adding other devices until you run into the issue again b) if the issue persists then go to Device Manager/Human Interface drivers and start disabling all of the USB devices one by one, i.e: - disable one then launch I16, if issue continues then re-enable it - disable the next device, launch i16, issue continues = re-enable it back - etc.. Question: when you said you removed I16 did you make sure all of its .lua files were gone? If not, maybe start with that first, i.e. remove i16, then clean all of its files from the DCS installation folder. Thanks for your reply! I do not think I removed all of its .lua files... You gave me plenty of good options to try, thanks very much! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 1) Done. 2) Can't, they are not listed as a category when the devices are unplugged ... 3) Flew the I-16 using keyboard controls, left-right and up-down, Five minutes of Instant Action, Free Flight - issue not seen a) Added the FFB2 stick back into action. Have not reset the assignments. Five minutes of Instant Action, Free Flight - issue not seen b) Hooked the Home Built Bodnar board up again. Five minutes of Instant Action, Free Flight - issue not seen - However, FPS are down to 27 suddenly. c) Un-hooked Bodnar controller, tried again: One minute of Instant Action, Free Flight - Still low FPS. Restart of PC. d) Bodnar connected, One minute of Instant Action, Free Flight, FPS good (144), but issue is back! Restart of PC. e) Bodnar disconnected, One minute of Instant Action, Free Flight , issue not seen. FPS Good. Then, Hooked up Bodnar (hot-plug!), issue is there. UnHoooked Bodnar, issue stays. Restart PC. f) Bodnar disconnected, One minute of Instant Action, Free Flight , issue not seen. FPS Good. g) Bodnar board connected, without its rudder pedals (those are home built as well), One minute of Instant Action, Free Flight, FPS good (144), but issue is back! So, it’s the Bodnar board, and/or the wiring. Really weird though that it only shows up in DCS I-16 … Got a spare Bodnar, so next thing to try is to swap it. Hope it helps, as I do not want to work on that wiring Thanks very much @peachmonkey, for steering me in the right direction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 So... here's more... 1) Swapped out the Bodnar board for a spare one - (slightly different model - by looks/color.) 2) Tried with both home built HAL sensors disconnected. 3) Used different USB port - it was connected to a separately powered USB hub, now on motherboard directly. All to no avail... It's as if every now and then an HID related buffer overflows. And it seems it's down to the Bodnar board. The issue only occurs when that one is connected. Anyone out there using a Bodnar board and is 'flying' the DCS I-16 ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachmonkey Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 2 hours ago, DD_FT said: So... here's more... 1) Swapped out the Bodnar board for a spare one - (slightly different model - by looks/color.) 2) Tried with both home built HAL sensors disconnected. 3) Used different USB port - it was connected to a separately powered USB hub, now on motherboard directly. All to no avail... It's as if every now and then an HID related buffer overflows. And it seems it's down to the Bodnar board. The issue only occurs when that one is connected. Anyone out there using a Bodnar board and is 'flying' the DCS I-16 ?? I use the 2 x 32 button Bodnars (plus a bunch of other HOTAS/buttons/extensions, it's a circus) to fly the A8, no issues there. I do have I16, however never even tried flying it, lol. I guess I can give it a try and see if I run in to a similar issue. Just out of curiosity: did you update the motherboard Chipset drivers recently? If not, give that a try, you never know if there are bugs in the USB controller chipset drivers.. If you can apply a latest BIOS as well that'd be great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) The I-16 is very nice to fly - difficult take-off and landing, but it's lovely in the air... Try it in Instant action, then you'd only have to assign the basic three axis, throttle and you're fine Motherboard is of 2018, and yes - latest BIOS version is installed. Chipset drivers: only older ones available ... Edited May 25, 2022 by DD_FT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachmonkey Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, DD_FT said: The I-16 is very nice to fly - difficult take-off and landing, but it's lovely in the air... Try it in Instant action, then you'd only have to assign the basic three axis, throttle and you're fine Motherboard is of 2018, and yes - latest BIOS version yup, will do tonight, although I do like learning the modules the proper way from the cold start Upgraded BIOS is great, but also look in to getting the latest chipset drivers, lots of I/O goes through them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 19 minutes ago, peachmonkey said: yup, will do tonight, although I do like learning the modules the proper way from the cold start Upgraded BIOS is great, but also look in to getting the latest chipset drivers, lots of I/O goes through them. Please take your time, do it your own way - I am not in a hurry! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachmonkey Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 On 5/24/2022 at 4:02 PM, DD_FT said: e) Bodnar disconnected, One minute of Instant Action, Free Flight , issue not seen. FPS Good. Then, Hooked up Bodnar (hot-plug!), issue is there. UnHoooked Bodnar, issue stays. Restart PC. so I re-read your points and you mentioned "hot-plug". Do you actually have it enabled or disabled in Controls? On my machine it's disabled due to the reported stuttering way back in 2018/2019. Make sure you disable it next time you test. See this topic: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 Hotplug is enabled. Will disable it and test again ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachmonkey Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 3 hours ago, DD_FT said: Hotplug is enabled. Will disable it and test again ... a-ha.. that might be your smoking gun.. fingers crossed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 26, 2022 Author Share Posted May 26, 2022 Well, this is getting interesting. Really. Kinda ... So, with HotPlug disabled, I thought that did it. In Free flight. No issues for some seven minutes. It all felt so nice, that I decided to fly to the airfield, and try and land. So, line up, fly over the field, turn into a left circuit, slow down, drop gear on downwind leg, turn to base ... oh dear - here we go again... Now, the way I drop the gears is to keep one bodnar based button depressed until it's all the way down, as in I am not operating that handle for like 32 cycles ... (Issue also occurred when using a keyboard key to drop the gears.) Disconnected the bodnar controller, used keyboard to lower and raise the gears, had to lower-raise-lower to have the issue occur ... but indeed, it did in the end! To me now it is clear - there is some input buffer overflowing. That's why I never saw it on the ground... there's too little time spent on the ground with lots of inputs - one usually still has the gears down. Oh well. Maybe there is an I-16 related .lua file that has an incorrect value in it? Yes, I am now going to get rid of the I-16 install, remove leftovers of it, Repair the installation, then add the I-16 to it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 26, 2022 Author Share Posted May 26, 2022 So, uninstall I-16, cleanup, Repair, Install I-16. Assigned the basic stuff again, to be able to fly. And it still occurs Okay, @peachmonkey, I need you to try it ... (For me, the next thing to try would probably a re-install of W10... lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachmonkey Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 3 hours ago, DD_FT said: So, uninstall I-16, cleanup, Repair, Install I-16. Assigned the basic stuff again, to be able to fly. And it still occurs Okay, @peachmonkey, I need you to try it ... (For me, the next thing to try would probably a re-install of W10... lol) thank you for the update, you comment about the buffer is an interesting one. I will definitely give it a try tonight (last night hadn't worked out that well) with different controllers... Do you have any keyboard-to-joystick virtual button mapping apps running ? (like joy2key)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 26, 2022 Author Share Posted May 26, 2022 No software for re-mapping present here. I want to keep it all as simple a possible - will always find a different way of doing things without having to install extra supporting software. TrackIR is running though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachmonkey Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 hi, @DD_FT so I did some tests yesterday and I got zero delay/stutter with my bodnar's.. First of all I16 is a fun little plane, too bad there's no updated damage model but that's due to the closed SDK per my understanding. The landing gear mechanism is a total circus, just like the rest of the plane. I'm still trying to figure out the logic of the drum brake that has to be in "released/fwd" position to retract the gear but in "closed/aft" position to lower the gear... scratching my head on this one.. As far as my controller test: - assigned a rotary on the VPC panel for gear retract/lower - assigned 2 buttons on one of my bodnars, one for retract, another for lowering operated both the rotary and the buttons (continuing press/push to retract/release) <-- no delays/stutters.. Hotplug was disabled, didn't try it with 'enabled', saw no need for that. Did you get the latest chipset drivers in as well ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 Thanks peachmonkey! Latest chipset drivers are in, W10 are the only ones available me thinks (Asus Prima Z370-P) "continuing press/push to retract/release" does it me you press the button and keep it pressed, instead of press-release-press-release? If so, could you try and see if whilst holding the button down the stick movements in the cockpit is fluidly following the joystick itself? As in my case, whilst the button is being held down, the 'delay' occurs as well. ===== So - I am already carefully looking into what a re-install of W10 would mean for me (Though I will first fiddle with the mobo/chipset drivers...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachmonkey Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 30 minutes ago, DD_FT said: Thanks peachmonkey! Latest chipset drivers are in, W10 are the only ones available me thinks (Asus Prima Z370-P) "continuing press/push to retract/release" does it me you press the button and keep it pressed, instead of press-release-press-release? If so, could you try and see if whilst holding the button down the stick movements in the cockpit is fluidly following the joystick itself? As in my case, whilst the button is being held down, the 'delay' occurs as well. ===== So - I am already carefully looking into what a re-install of W10 would mean for me (Though I will first fiddle with the mobo/chipset drivers...) yup, I was continuously pressing the button on the bodnar to retract/lower the gear whilst controlling the plane with the joystick. I've got a bunch of junk connected to my computer, i.e.: - vkb gun fighter pro - vkb gladiator - saitek x55 throttle - virpil vpc panel - 2 x bodnars (32 button ones) - PCPanel - Mini (usb), for app volume control.. no stutters.. I've got the MSI x570 Tomahawk wi-fi mobo + 5900x cpu. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 Thanks! You indeed have a bunch of stuff connected. Using the word 'stuff', because, if peripherals connected to your computer were to be called 'junk', then there would be no words available on the scale to use for the peripherals connected to my computer There's one more thing we've kept out of the equation: FFB. I got an MS-FFB2 stick, yours is none-FFB. A squadron mate mentioned that he remembered seeing something similar in DCS with the TomCat, it was fixed though - ages ago ... I will try next with it switched off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 How does one switch FFB off in DCS? lol Tried it without the power cord in the SideWinder... after gear down/up, down/up, down, landing, take off the slow responses returned. Oh well - found out now my rudder pedals need some attention, its wiring needs checking ... May have to try and live with this one. (Had a DCS Session yesterday, and the intermittent input stutters were not that bad, could maneuver a lot whilst ground-attacking - before I'd be in trouble down low, heavily bankin' left when you cannot level out in time due to stick input not getting through is a recipe for a hole-in-the-ground. Had no such events during the last session... Maybe all the tinkering with the bodnar and all its wiring did help here... ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachmonkey Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 On 5/27/2022 at 12:38 PM, DD_FT said: How does one switch FFB off in DCS? lol Tried it without the power cord in the SideWinder... after gear down/up, down/up, down, landing, take off the slow responses returned. Oh well - found out now my rudder pedals need some attention, its wiring needs checking ... May have to try and live with this one. (Had a DCS Session yesterday, and the intermittent input stutters were not that bad, could maneuver a lot whilst ground-attacking - before I'd be in trouble down low, heavily bankin' left when you cannot level out in time due to stick input not getting through is a recipe for a hole-in-the-ground. Had no such events during the last session... Maybe all the tinkering with the bodnar and all its wiring did help here... ?) I think if you look in Options->Miscellaneous there's an option to activate ForceFeedback... yeah, sorry I can't be of help anymore Now it's all down to finding the gremlins in your drivers.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_FT Posted May 30, 2022 Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 So, finally getting somewhere: Switching OFF the ForceFeedback helps. It's even obvious moving the stick left/right whilst lowering the gears, keeping that button down ... FFB=on, delays are visible, FFB=off instant movements all of the time. Analysis complete. Now for a fix ... (And no, I am not giving up on da SideWinder!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts