Option to include Harrier GR.9/7

[Mig Fulcrum]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong since i'm not a Harrier expert.

As far as I know the GR.5 correspond to the first AV-8B.

GR.7 and GR.9 --> AV-8B N/A 

Now, I know GR.7 and GR.9 have different engines from the AV-8B but GR.7A and GR.9A have the same RR Pegasus Mk 107 of the american brother so i'm asking: would it be a huge amount of work to include a british variant in the existing module, to operate from the upcoming HMS Invincible?

I don't know exactly the systems differences (if there are any) but it looks like the main thing to change would be some 3d model details, pilot and skins.

I know it's a minor thing but it would be strange to use an american Harrier in a british carrier and i know there are some user made skins to download but having something official would be something else of course.

Also. comes to mind that RAZBAM already did GR7 and GR9 for another sim.

Just asking, don't be rude please.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Mig Fulcrum

[Sheepy]

from just looking at Wikipedia I think it would need to be a whole new module on its own :). 

Edit: From what I understand the GR7 and 9 are upgraded GR5s. Maybe the GR9 although I think they would still have some differences. 

 

Quote

GR.5
The GR5 was the RAF's first model of the second-generation Harrier. The GR5 considerably differed from the USMC AV-8B in terms of avionics, armaments and countermeasures. Forty one GR5s were built.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Aerospace_Harrier_II

Edited May 8, 2022 by Sheepy

[joey45]

Different wings and avionics mainly.

Oh and good luck on the EW suite for the 7/9.

 

A GR 5 would be nice is all else fails.

[Anditsgone_]

On 5/8/2022 at 5:00 PM, Mig Fulcrum said:

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong since i'm not a Harrier expert.

As far as I know the GR.5 correspond to the first AV-8B.

GR.7 and GR.9 --> AV-8B N/A 

Now, I know GR.7 and GR.9 have different engines from the AV-8B but GR.7A and GR.9A have the same RR Pegasus Mk 107 of the american brother so i'm asking: would it be a huge amount of work to include a british variant in the existing module, to operate from the upcoming HMS Invincible?

I don't know exactly the systems differences (if there are any) but it looks like the main thing to change would be some 3d model details, pilot and skins.

I know it's a minor thing but it would be strange to use an american Harrier in a british carrier and i know there are some user made skins to download but having something official would be something else of course.

Also. comes to mind that RAZBAM already did GR7 and GR9 for another sim.

Just asking, don't be rude please.

 

Yeah unfortunatly I don't think that will happen any time soon because the plan was to do the GR7, not the AV-8B, however the MOD keep a large amount of details to do with the harrier EW suite, which made it impossible to fully develop. Its a great shame however I do hope they make the GR5 in any case.

[Mig Fulcrum]

Yeah I see, but a GR5 have different engine so a differenti flight model, then it would be for sure a new module and I don't know how many people would buy a GR5 module when the AV-8B is altready out (probably I'm one of the few)

[Marsvinet]

Even the GR5 has a british-specific EW system. I don't know if it is the same as the Zeus system on the GR7/9, but look at pictures of the GR5 and you can see an extra bulge under the nose. 

[stuart666]

EW is so simplified in DCS, im not quite sure its going to be that much of issue, is it?

Id  be happy with a GR5, I can see the problems with the later ones. I guess it comes down to how popular Falklands is going to be.

[Boosterdog]

1 hour ago, stuart666 said:

EW is so simplified in DCS, im not quite sure its going to be that much of issue, is it?

Id  be happy with a GR5, I can see the problems with the later ones. I guess it comes down to how popular Falklands is going to be.

Assuming the MOD and manufacturers suddenly became DCS friendly, I dont see the SA map being a factor for a GR 5 as there is no historical contex. At a push the current PG and Syria maps better suit the type with a dose of salt. Of course there are what if scenarios but thats rabbit hole of personal viewpoints that I doubt any Dev would crawl down and pin a product on. SA in its 1982 mooted guise is perhaps much more a factor for a SHARs and GR3s as, without it, there is little currently on offer map wise that gives them any contex either. 

 

[Mig Fulcrum]

If we are talking about historical accuracy, the GR7 would be the one just because as far as I know it was the only ground variant that operate from the HMS Invincible.

If we don't consider the carrier, every variant would be ok.

[whiteladder]

On 5/10/2022 at 9:46 AM, Marsvinet said:

Even the GR5 has a british-specific EW system. I don't know if it is the same as the Zeus system on the GR7/9, but look at pictures of the GR5 and you can see an extra bulge under the nose. 

The bulge under the nose of the GR5 isn`t part of the the EW fit, it was the housing for a ir Linescan recon system, but it was never fitted.  When it was upgraded to the GR7 Zeus system did get 2 antennas in a similar position, that look like tusks.  You can see them in a model I made under the nose

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by whiteladder

[Spurts]

I just want that extra Sidewinder rail.  Why oh why did the USMC not use that?

[Krez]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:56 AM, Spurts said:

I just want that extra Sidewinder rail.  Why oh why did the USMC not use that?

One can only assume that politics played a role.

[joey45]

Probably didn't see the need for it as the role the Harrier was/is doing. 

[mattjonesgr9]

On 5/8/2022 at 5:00 PM, Mig Fulcrum said:

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong since i'm not a Harrier expert.

As far as I know the GR.5 correspond to the first AV-8B.

GR.7 and GR.9 --> AV-8B N/A 

Now, I know GR.7 and GR.9 have different engines from the AV-8B but GR.7A and GR.9A have the same RR Pegasus Mk 107 of the american brother so i'm asking: would it be a huge amount of work to include a british variant in the existing module, to operate from the upcoming HMS Invincible?

I don't know exactly the systems differences (if there are any) but it looks like the main thing to change would be some 3d model details, pilot and skins.

I know it's a minor thing but it would be strange to use an american Harrier in a british carrier and i know there are some user made skins to download but having something official would be something else of course.

Also. comes to mind that RAZBAM already did GR7 and GR9 for another sim.

Just asking, don't be rude please.

 

I tried to obtain the documentation from the MOD for the GR7 and 9 through a freedom of information request for Razbam but it was refused as they don't have the required personnel to go through it all and redact any sensitive information there may be.

[rkk01]

3 hours ago, mattjonesgr9 said:

I tried to obtain the documentation from the MOD for the GR7 and 9 through a freedom of information request for Razbam but it was refused as they don't have the required personnel to go through it all and redact any sensitive information there may be.

I admire your dedication @mattjonesgr9, but flippin heck that response is depressing

Basically - we don’t have the resources to review the sensitivity, the aircraft is out of service and the personnel who might know stuff have buggered off…

That applies to any bit of old UK military kit, and the staff that operated it will be bound by the OSA

[ST0RM]

On 5/18/2022 at 10:56 AM, Spurts said:

I just want that extra Sidewinder rail.  Why oh why did the USMC not use that?

The USMC purchased the remaining stocks of GR.9 airframes, when they were retired. They're sitting at AMARG as I type. 
So the capability is there, just not the need as the Harrier is slowly phased out in favor of the F-35.

[mattjonesgr9]

On 6/20/2022 at 9:00 AM, rkk01 said:

I admire your dedication @mattjonesgr9, but flippin heck that response is depressing

Basically - we don’t have the resources to review the sensitivity, the aircraft is out of service and the personnel who might know stuff have buggered off…

That applies to any bit of old UK military kit, and the staff that operated it will be bound by the OSA

You're welcome and I'm gutted that this was the response

[Jonay]

Someone asked for Lynx FRCs, this is the response that they got... https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/585514/response/1422291/attach/4/LYNX AH MK 9A Doc 2.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

 

so yeah even if they did have the time, it would have probably looked like that.

I would just like the additional SW rails from the outriggers to make it at least look more GR7.9 externally for screenshots.  I couldn't care about the system differences, it does everything I need it to.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Jonay

[westr]

On 9/26/2023 at 10:47 AM, Jonay said:

Someone asked for Lynx FRCs, this is the response that they got... https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/585514/response/1422291/attach/4/LYNX AH MK 9A Doc 2.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

 

so yeah even if they did have the time, it would have probably looked like that.

I would just like the additional SW rails from the outriggers to make it at least look more GR7.9 externally for screenshots.  I couldn't care about the system differences, it does everything I need it to.

 

Visually it’s that and a slightly longer snout with the two underside antennas. Otherwise like you say I’m not fussed about the system differences. It would then look great with the fantastic RAF skins the community does. 

[ChrispyBacon89]

I'd quite happily take the SW rails on the caster positions and have be a "Gr.5" would be good enough given how, until we get the Typhoon or Tornado (both of which will be German variants), we have no RAF or RN aircraft post WW2.

[mattjonesgr9]

On 9/26/2023 at 10:47 AM, Jonay said:

Someone asked for Lynx FRCs, this is the response that they got... https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/585514/response/1422291/attach/4/LYNX AH MK 9A Doc 2.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

 

so yeah even if they did have the time, it would have probably looked like that.

I would just like the additional SW rails from the outriggers to make it at least look more GR7.9 externally for screenshots.  I couldn't care about the system differences, it does everything I need it to.

 

I did manage to obtain two Harrier GR7 manuals but i cant post links to them here as it would violate ED forum rules 

[Bremspropeller]

I'm in with the outrigger pylons.

Did they also carry Sidewinders on those or was that an ASRAAM thing?

Edith: Sidewinders, baby!

null

Edited April 2 by Bremspropeller