Jump to content

Resupplying SAMs


Recommended Posts

From what I can tell, only units you can drive can be resupplied, because you must be in the unit and within range of a supply source (depot or truck) and press LALT + ' .

But you cannot enter a SAM launcher to press LALT + ' , so how is it supposed to work?

I thought I read that if you put a supply truck within 100 meters that should be enough, but I have Hawk sights using up their missiles and never reloading.

What is one to do?

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Captain Orso said:

From what I can tell, only units you can drive can be resupplied, because you must be in the unit and within range of a supply source (depot or truck) and press LALT + ' .

But you cannot enter a SAM launcher to press LALT + ' , so how is it supposed to work?

I thought I read that if you put a supply truck within 100 meters that should be enough, but I have Hawk sights using up their missiles and never reloading.

What is one to do?

Works automatically if a suitable truck is within 175M of the launcher AND the hawk has loosed all its 3 missiles (i think). 

Ive just run a very simple test with a single hawk launcher and an M939 truck parked about 100M away. Re-supplied in 8 mins as advertised.  Hawk does require all the missiles on a launcher to have launched before re-supply starts.

Placed a second lanncher an equal distance from the truck for a second run - this also re-supplied 8 mins after last missile was fired from its rails along with the first launcher.  So it seesm any launcher within 175M of a suitable truck will be re-supplied regardless of how many others the truck is also servicing. 

All auto AI

Id suggest no bug. 

  • Thanks 1

MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. 

Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies, guys.

This is happening on a 4YA server, and it might be something controlled by the server. I wanted to be sure, before opening a can of worms with 4YA.

I'm going to have a closer and more direct look at the situation with the information you guys have provided. It's hard to tell if it's a bug, when you don't know exactly what you're looking for.

Many thanks again 👍

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah it looks like it has something to do with the server/MP setting as opposed to being a bug, but it could be an issue that only shows up in MP. I think your plan to try it again on the server with a same coalition truck as described by @Boosterdog above will help you resolve the issue.

Good luck and let us know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I can confirm that resupply does work. But as reported above, only when a launcher is completely empty.

A supply truck can reload one completely empty launcher at a time.

The launcher must be within the resupply range of the truck, about 100 meters--see the circle around the supply truck on the F10 map.

Each reload process takes 8 minutes. Once one reload is completed, an other empty launcher can be reloaded, whereby the timer is reset to 8 minutes again.

This means that a Hawk battery with 4 launchers, if completely empty of missiles, will take 32 minutes to completely reload the entire battery.

If some launchers are empty while others are not, the empty launchers can be reloaded, while the launchers with missiles can still operate and engage the enemy.

I did not test yet whether multiple trucks can resupply multiple launchers at the same time, but I suspect - yes.

I noted that the Hawks were not using one launcher after the other, for what ever reason. I had a battery with one launcher with 3 missiles, while the other 3 had 1 each, which means, none of them could start reloading. Of course the battery then fired off the next three missiles, emptying the first three launchers at nearly the same time. It seems that the battery takes into account how far the launcher would need to turn, for selecting a launcher. Why--wHy WhY WHY?!?--they don't simply use one launcher until empty, allowing reload to start immediately, I have no idea. Maybe it's the real SOP. Maybe there are technical issues. I have no idea. I do know that it is a PITA and can leave a battery down for reload and susceptible to destruction, while being helpless.

On a side note, the Hawk seems to operate rather stupidly, firing multiple missiles at aircraft right at the edge of its range, one from each launcher. The target turns away and the missiles apparently cannot steer while coasting--(???) those big, fat, fins seam useless. I watched a Hawk missile heading straight for an SU-24 when the missiles motor when out. It was only about 100-200 meters away and heading straight for the Fencer, but it didn't even attempt to turn a couple degrees toward the Fencer and coasted right past within about 30 meters without exploding at all. It seemed the AI used this trick to draw off all the Hawk missiles within a  few minutes, leaving the battery only protected by a Roland, and open to destruction. Sad.


Edited by Captain Orso
corrections
  • Like 1

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Captain Orso said:

Okay, (followed by lots of good detail)

 

My tests differ 

The truck has a max range from the launcher of 175M, any launcher within that radius will be resupplied (the circle around the M939 is 200M roughly)

Launchers are resupplied 8 mins after the last missile leaves the rail. If launcher 1 empties at 10mins and Launcher 2 empties at 11 mins launcher 1 will be resupplied at 18mins and launcher 2 at 19mins. There is no clock reset on the truck after resupply even with a single truck. Clocks appear to apply to the lanchers only. I tested with 4 launchers. The first missle left the rails at 10:52 mins, the last at 14:44 mins, leaving all launchers empty - all launchers where resupplied fully by 23:30 mins (completion was likely a little faster but I couldnt slow down the time acceleration fast enough!!) using a single truck.

The HAWK can, like all other SAMs be forced to reduce its engagment range using the Advanced Waypont Actions menu/set options/interception range. Tested and the range enforcment works as intended. 

LIke all SAMs the AI isnt smart enough to hold a full launcher in reserve or use launcher sequentially when appropriate. It fires what it has from the closest launcher (??) to the target that has it at the time leaving the battery potentially at risk of a secondary overwhelming package. Using a dual array (so battery of say 4 set to an interpetions range of 70% and a second battery of 1 or 2 set to an interpetion range of 40-50%) or setting up the ME trigger to wake up the point defence sam's AI in a red state only if an aircraft enters a defined trigger zone ((there may well be other smarter options)) may be a workaround.

Hope this helps

EDIT - there is a smarter way to reserve launchers - pick the launchers you want to keep in reserve and name there UNITS -create a min range trigger zone - Use a mission start UNIT AI OFF trigger for the reserved launchers then create a switched condition using the approrpiate "IN ZONE" rule to set UNIT AI ON and a switched condition "OUT OF ZONE" condition to switch the AI back off when the threat dimishies. I guess setting the Groups State to RED may reduce reaction times but Im not sure and I can only get it work once for some reason likely down to my own lack of ME undstanding.

I think you could also create random trigger flags to switch the conditions for the units keep the emeny guessing as to whether a site is keeping its powder dry or not (to a degree)

Simple Miz example attached

 

 

test.miz


Edited by Boosterdog
  • Like 1

MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. 

Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First off, I'm talking about MP and not SP, so I have no control over the mission itself, no special zones, no special scripting, nothing.

I had a Hawk battery with every launcher empty (no missiles at all). The battery did not have any trucks nearby. I moved a truck to the middle of the battery and waited. After 8 minutes ONE launcher was reloaded; the other three were still empty. After another 8 minutes a second launcher was loaded, with the other two empty.

Could some server settings or some scripting in which I have no access to read? Sure; maybe; maybe not.

I spent some time following Hawk missiles at the verge of their range. They are trying to steer toward the target, but they're just really bad at it. I did see one case, in which the missile, already long without engine power, exploding and taking out an SU-24. Maybe the issue is just the missile itself being very old technology.

It reminds me of what I read about the differences between GBU kits and JDAM kits. GBU kits only allow for the control surfaces to be either straight or fully articulated, which makes for some crappy steering abilities. The JDAMS have not only much larger control surfaces, but can articulate those surfaces much more exactly; similar to the way a pilot articulates the control surfaces of the aircraft he's flying.

  • Like 1

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Captain Orso said:

First off, I'm talking about MP and not SP, so I have no control over the mission itself, no special zones, no special scripting, nothing.

 

Dont you end up with a copy of a MP mission on your own PC is you join a server? I think you used to as I remember Philstyle asking if it could be disabled.  If you can it might help you understand a littel better what is enforced and what are just limitations of the game. 


Edited by Boosterdog
  • Like 1

MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. 

Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This was a really interesting thread thanks to both of you.

Being mostly a WWII guy I have never even actually tired setting up any of the SAM units, but that is likely going to change as I start adding to my cold war collection. Do the early SAM systems in-game resupply in a similar way?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Callsign112 said:

This was a really interesting thread thanks to both of you.

Being mostly a WWII guy I have never even actually tired setting up any of the SAM units, but that is likely going to change as I start adding to my cold war collection. Do the early SAM systems in-game resupply in a similar way?

Some vary in times. This is an older video now but it does a decent job getting you up to speed on most stuff (I think the SA5 is the only stock game one not on there) 

As with ANY historic and non ED tutorial there may be inaccuaries and things may have changed a little (or a lot - i havnt found that though) in the interim. ROUGE13s spreadsheet is useful and Caps explanations are strighforward and not unnecesarily involved for an overview.  There are other videos which show how you can set up SAMs like the SA6 and SA11 in a daisy chain so the lauchers can be  placed away from the search and tracking radars making for some nightmare scenarios (especially if you shorten the engangment ranges and use mulitple sites).  The Skynet IADS script can also add layers of simple intelligence and complexity but for task specific missions in SP, its not really required. 

As an SP player the limitiation of what a truck can supply has never affected me. Fromn the mIz above I think I observed perhaps 3 or 4 complete restocks of 4 launchers before ending the session so its possibly not that limited! Equally Im not sure if the game takes into account the combined stcokpile of multiple trucks placed in the same location or not. 

Hope this helps


Edited by Boosterdog
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. 

Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

Pretty sure Launches does not need to be empty to be rearmed, but the groups needs to have stayed idle for long enough time. If it shoots one missile, put it on green state and wait for the rearming to happen. If it tries to engage something, rearming will not start.

  • Thanks 1

'Shadow'

 

Everybody gotta be offended and take it personally now-a-days

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Shadow KT said:

Pretty sure Launches does not need to be empty to be rearmed,

Correct.

2 hours ago, Shadow KT said:

but the groups needs to have stayed idle for long enough time.

I didn't test this, so I don't know - maybe. There is a timer. I've heard different statements on how long it is, from 60 seconds to 10 minutes, that a truck needs to be in range of the launcher for the reloading process to start. Once a launcher is reloading, IIRC it continues until completed, and it cannot fire at anything in the mean time.

2 hours ago, Shadow KT said:

If it shoots one missile, put it on green state and wait for the rearming to happen. If it tries to engage something, rearming will not start.

See my previous paragraph. I believe once reloading starts, there is no turning back. If the launcher is only waiting for reloading to start, I believe it will still operate normally.

  • Like 1

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...