Jump to content

Trimming the Ka-50


Acedy
 Share

Recommended Posts

I use AlphaOneSix method when flying and it works - now - like second nature. It took some time getting used to it but now I seems to do it without thinking. I can even get into a hover without much problem...

 

... however - my problem is now on a more "basic" level. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 430
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I have a Force Feedback Stick (Microsoft Sidewinder FF2) and my problem is this:

 

I pitch up for a hover, the speed drops to say 10km/h and I press alt-T. Still manually holding the stick in the hover position (pitched up), the chopper settles gently in a hover. Everything is good so far.

 

When I press and release the trim button, the FF stick recentres itself (as it should be I suppose); but the chopper also recognises the FF's recentering input and pitches the nose down. The nose drops, chopper speeds up and I loose the hover.

 

So far, force feedbakc did no good for me, so made the FF setting "zero" in the control menu. But if I will play this great game with no FF, it will disappoint me:)

 

Do you know the solution? I have no other stick or input device connected to my pc.

I guess my IQ is not enough for this game's trim function:)


Edited by airea
Link to comment
Share on other sites

MS FFB2 trim setting, resolved. What a great forcefeedback support!

 

2 images tell you everything.

 

01.jpg

 

First, choose FF Tune

 

 

02.jpg

 

Second, Don't forget to check Swap Axes.

S W A P A X E S

 

I don't know why it works like this but ED made it this way.

Grrr.. I struggled for 2 hours!!! :D

Numbers doesn't mattter. It's all your preference for strength.

 

Then surprisingly, and as I(we all, without complicated hassle) expected,

if I move stick to desired position to maintain attitude of Ka-50 and press the damn Trim key for a moment and release,

voila!, the FFB stick stay at that position and sit there on its own.

And the Ka-50 is unbelievably become stable and I can do my full-switch-job around the cockpit, :book: reading manual

 

Ok. move the stick a little right and forward so I need to change attitude, and press the trim key and release.. and it stay that way, woohoo.

 

Of course, as soon as you press 'release trim' key, the FFB stick quickly comes to neutral position.

All the position of the real stick perfectly matches in-game cyclic stick.

 

This is what I 've imagined for best helicopter sim FFB support but even I didn't expect it was possible.

 

Nice job ED. Thanks for your wonderful FFB support.:thumbup:

It doesn't even go slack by Alt-Tab like IL-2. :lol:

 

I've collected four(and one gone) MSFFB2 stick and I don't regret any more.

 

 

Of course, with CH full hotas setup and Control Manager programming, you can do this kind of job with beautiful script codes.

But putting your stick where it really is like real Ka-50 is a whole new experience.

System: Core2Duo E8500, 4G ram, GTX260, SLC SSD, and Vista 32bit. LG W2600HP 26" LCD.

Controls : MSFFB2, CH Pro throttle, Saitek rudder, Saitek throttle quadrant, and TrackIR4

BS Setting : medium with visibility HIGH

More skill you get, more you Love DCS:Black Shark.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a Force Feedback Stick (Microsoft Sidewinder FF2) and my problem is this:

 

I pitch up for a hover, the speed drops to say 10km/h and I press alt-T. Still manually holding the stick in the hover position (pitched up), the chopper settles gently in a hover. Everything is good so far.

 

When I press and release the trim button, the FF stick recentres itself (as it should be I suppose); but the chopper also recognises the FF's recentering input and pitches the nose down. The nose drops, chopper speeds up and I loose the hover.

 

So far, force feedbakc did no good for me, so made the FF setting "zero" in the control menu. But if I will play this great game with no FF, it will disappoint me:)

 

Do you know the solution? I have no other stick or input device connected to my pc.

I guess my IQ is not enough for this game's trim function:)

Solved the problem. Check thread. :music_whistling:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35494

System: Core2Duo E8500, 4G ram, GTX260, SLC SSD, and Vista 32bit. LG W2600HP 26" LCD.

Controls : MSFFB2, CH Pro throttle, Saitek rudder, Saitek throttle quadrant, and TrackIR4

BS Setting : medium with visibility HIGH

More skill you get, more you Love DCS:Black Shark.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The trimming with the MSFFB2 is really fantastic. But that´s the reason why i hate the rudder trim so much. You can´t keep the position there. You have to center it and that´s even tougher with pedals as with a joystick. If you have no center force

at your pedals, its even more annoying :-(((

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The trimming with the MSFFB2 is really fantastic. But that´s the reason why i hate the rudder trim so much. You can´t keep the position there. You have to center it and that´s even tougher with pedals as with a joystick. If you have no center force

at your pedals, its even more annoying :-(((

If you fly straight and level, I`ve found that if you center the ball on the yaw indicator (on the ADI) while trim button is pressed and then release, is better than resetting trim.

Resetting trim sometimes upsets the flight for some seconds.:)

 

I would also recommend flying coordinated turns with rollouts.

Smoothly enter a turn with trim button pressed while adding rudder. Look at the yaw indicator and keep the ball in center all the time. When you`re in the turn, release trim button and adjust altitude with collective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I read that but it was a little vague and it said 'Invert axes', which is was far from FF tune in Control option.

So that cost me some of us a few hours.

You can see that in many threads.

 

I mildly ask you to correct it as 'Swap Axes' in 'FF tune'.

System: Core2Duo E8500, 4G ram, GTX260, SLC SSD, and Vista 32bit. LG W2600HP 26" LCD.

Controls : MSFFB2, CH Pro throttle, Saitek rudder, Saitek throttle quadrant, and TrackIR4

BS Setting : medium with visibility HIGH

More skill you get, more you Love DCS:Black Shark.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So will this enable me to actually use the trim button, because at the moment pressing the trim button and moving the stick, then releasing doesn't work for me.

As soon as i let go of the trim button the joystick's ff snaps back at me and ends up trimming to the right and down everytime!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep. It will fix exactly that error.

System: Core2Duo E8500, 4G ram, GTX260, SLC SSD, and Vista 32bit. LG W2600HP 26" LCD.

Controls : MSFFB2, CH Pro throttle, Saitek rudder, Saitek throttle quadrant, and TrackIR4

BS Setting : medium with visibility HIGH

More skill you get, more you Love DCS:Black Shark.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team
I read that but it was a little vague and it said 'Invert axes', which is was far from FF tune in Control option.
Thanks, FAQ will be corrected.

Прощальным костром догорает эпоха

И мы наблюдаем за тенью и светом

(© ДДТ)

DCS World 2.5: Часто задаваемые вопросы

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you have pushed you're cyclic 30% of its left travel, and you press and release the trim button, you new trim center is 30% to the left, not 0. There is no leftover AP input. When you press the trimmer button, the AP zeroes out its input, and keeps it zeroed until you let go of the button.

 

This is why I always press the trim button FIRST, THEN make my control movements, THEN release the trim button. This works perfectly well for me. Some say there is no need to trim this way, but I would suggest trying it this way and seeing what your results are.

 

That's how I try to do it.

 

But I often have the stick already off center and I'm fighting both trim and AP before I decide that a re-trim is required. And then I have to trim twice (as explained above). And judging by the number of trim related questions I'm not alone here...

 

Furthermore... Based on a number of posts, I believe this is how it's done in real Ka-50: Move the stick and click the trim to keep the stick there. It's even been suggested (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=33812) to not use the press and hold the trimmer method since it's easy to over control.

 

So... I still think a different implementation for self-centering joysticks is needed. I'm wondering if this can be done by tweaking some .lua file???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With Miocrosoft FF joystick, does the trim go to neutral when trim reset is pressed in Instant Action? I have a Logitech FF and I have a problem with missions that start in the air. I've posted this in other threads but here is the description on how to reproduce:

 

-Start Instant Action

-hit ctrl-enter to bring up "controls indicator" (you'll notice forward trim is already set)

-hit reset trim (you'll notice trim does not go to neutral (ie, where the two axes cross)

 

now....do the same thing on a cold start mission

-start any cold start mission

-hit ctrl-enter to bring up "controls indicator" (you'll notice trim is neutral)

-take off and trim forward

-hit reset trim (you'll notice trim resets to neutral)

 

So, my conclusion is that there is a trim bug at least with my logitech FF joystick in missions you start from the air.

 

To work around this problem, I had to disable forcefeedback in Producer.cfg.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cougar trimming tweak...

 

I'm using Viper's ka-50 profile for the cougar atm (lovely work btw), tried putting in the command in which the stick "remembers" its position before releasing the button for trimming. Is there anything I have to add to the macro side of things? I try using it in the sim and nothing seems to happen for me, anything I might be doing wrong?

 

Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are 4 macro's to add in the macro file:

 

 

Axis_Trim = TRIM(JOYSTICK, TO_CURRENT)

Axis_Reset = TRIM(JOYSTICK, 0)

Axis_Lock = LOCK(JOYSTICK, LASTVALUE)

Axis_Unlock = UNLOCK(JOYSTICK)

 

If i remember correctly, you get an error while compiling if the macro's aren't there. I'm currently using this which i also got from this forum, there is a version with rudder trim too:

 

BTN H3R /I TRIM(JOYSTICK, 0)

/O /P LOCK(JOYSTICK, LASTVALUE) TRIM(JOYSTICK, TO_CURRENT) /R UNLOCK(JOYSTICK)

 

Nothing to add to the macrofile with this one.

 

Win10 Pro 64-bit, i7-4770K @ 4.5 GHz, Corsair H100i, AsRock Extreme4, ASUS Strix 1080Ti OC 11GB, 32 GB DDR3 G.Skill 2400. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base & hegykc MFG Crosswind modded pedals, TrackIR4, Oculus Rift S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

rudder trim

 

If you fly straight and level, I`ve found that if you center the ball on the yaw indicator (on the ADI) while trim button is pressed and then release, is better than resetting trim.

Resetting trim sometimes upsets the flight for some seconds.:)

 

I dont have the reset trim function mapped. Makes no sense for me.

 

 

I would also recommend flying coordinated turns with rollouts.

Smoothly enter a turn with trim button pressed while adding rudder. Look at the yaw indicator and keep the ball in center all the time. When you`re in the turn, release trim button and adjust altitude with collective.

 

I always try to fly coordinated. But if you do so, you need some rudder input. And that is where the trouble begins. The moment you release the trim button, the rudder input jumps

rapidly elsewhere. That is the end of your coordinated flight. I understand there is no other way to do it with the cyclic in combination with a non FFB stick. But it is solved perfectly

with a FFB stick. But with rudder pedals it is absolutely unnecessary, as you have no real force on PC rudder pedals. In the real plane you dont have to mess around with your pedals

when pressing the trim button. Thats why i hope they give us the option to disable the rudder trim. It would double the joy of that sim for me. And it is not much programming work.

I hope i can convince some more, so it makes the way into the first patch :D

 

PS but i am not the only one at least:

 

I would like to go back on problems with trim button affecting rudders. On Mi-24 trimmer button is not affecting rudder pedals. I find it wrong that on DCS BS trim is also neutralizing forces on rudders. It is normal that leg muscles are much stronger, and logically less sensitive to small forces than our hands. Therefore I’m having problems feeling where the neutral position on my pedals is. So I find it a bit disturbing that with the press on trim button, besides I have to move my joystick back to neutral, I also have to concentrate to move my pedals back to neutral. That is something that I usually I don’t succeed to do, at least not as precisely as I would like to. Result is always that my helicopter swings a bit to the other side. Therefore I think that it would be useful at least to have possibility to have option to turn off or on rudders from trimming function depending on user’s wish.

I hope that my reply was not too long. If it was please accept my apology.

 

...but no response of ED so far on that matter :(


Edited by lion737
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Missing something conceptual about trim

 

Hey all!

 

I have read the various threads and FAQs available about using trim. Concerning regular flight, I get it. I hold down trim, I get the helicopter stable, I let go. That lets me fly nice and stable without any major control movements.

 

The thing I'm missing something on is this business of how often you're supposed to trim when maneuvering. Everyone says "trim often". I'm not understanding how trimming often helps me when maneuvering. My ability to fly is not up to the level when I get it, I suppose. If I'm moving around and changing directions, what benefit do you get from constantly trimming the helicopter? Why trim it for one direction when I'm going to be moving in another one so soon?

 

Another way I can explain what I'm talking about is referring to a track that comes with the English version. Its called something like "Convoy Hunt". Its just a simple mission with one Ka-50 attacking a convoy.

 

When the pilot gets to the part where he's strafing back and forth over the convoy, shooting his gun and gun pods, how often would you be trimming in that case? I guess I'm getting the mental image that I'm supposed to be spamming the trim like a monkey when my own experience so far has told me that trimming is for level flight, not maneuvers. I trim for level flight and then keep that trim while maneuvering. Once I'm done, I "clean up" the helicopter by re-trimming for level flight again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team

When gunning the convoy I did not touch the trim.

 

For me, I generally only trim when going into a hover, making a drastic airspeed change, or getting ready to put the aircraft in ROUTE mode. But, that's just me... There is no "right" way.


Edited by Wags
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess it may not work as well as it does in practice without an FFB stick - the idea is, you make a short movement and trim. Then another short (ie. relatively small stick deflection compared to the full throw) and trim.

If you're doing it in such a manner that you're comfortable with it, chances are you're doing it right, though without a track who can tell :)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With Miocrosoft FF joystick, does the trim go to neutral when trim reset is pressed in Instant Action? I have a Logitech FF and I have a problem with missions that start in the air. I've posted this in other threads but here is the description on how to reproduce:

 

-Start Instant Action

-hit ctrl-enter to bring up "controls indicator" (you'll notice forward trim is already set)

-hit reset trim (you'll notice trim does not go to neutral (ie, where the two axes cross)

 

now....do the same thing on a cold start mission

-start any cold start mission

-hit ctrl-enter to bring up "controls indicator" (you'll notice trim is neutral)

-take off and trim forward

-hit reset trim (you'll notice trim resets to neutral)

 

So, my conclusion is that there is a trim bug at least with my logitech FF joystick in missions you start from the air.

 

To work around this problem, I had to disable forcefeedback in Producer.cfg.

 

I have a similar problem with the trim in air starting missions, ie. instant action. Swapping the axis did no good for air starting missions...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its' weird, sometimes I swear the trim responds differently, but i suppose it could be because as you learn, your perspective constantly changes, but for the last few days, it seems like my trim only "half" works, like I will have the nose down at say 15 degrees, and then lets say I balance out the collective and the speed, and i achieve a nice stable flight path in whatever direction im going, then i set the trim and recenter the cyclic, but the nose will pop way up on me. I mean like a horse rearing up, my nose will go like way up, i have to control the beast.

 

I find myself using trim less and less, but flying better and better.

 

Dont get me wrong, the trim is an invaluable tool, but the more flight time you get, the more you get a sense of when you really need it, and when you dont.

 

thats my ignorant two cents.

Dont let the smell get to ya...............

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...