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Trimming the Ka-50


Acedy

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You mean a heading hold diamond? It's always present doing something when you're not in Route flying or Flight Director or have Auto Turn to Targets on or have the Head Hold channel off, but you won't see it unless the DH/DT switch is in the middle. That's why I've been telling people if you're not in FD or Route Flying and Head Hold is on, put the switch in the middle so you can see where it's set. Trim or hitting Head Hold off/on quickly will reset the diamond to a new spot, by the way. When you're in Flight Director mode, all three hold channels become nothing more than dampening channels, rather than heading/attitude hold channels.


Edited by Reticuli

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X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick

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Yeee haww I finally trimmed! :smartass:

Took me 7.5 hours to learn it. :book::pilotfly:

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Ok 1 more time a little slower...........

 

In the hud footage it is not present, what flight mode is that? Because it is always present in game.

 

IT IS always present in game, just wondering about the footage.

 

Yes I understand about resetting it,hdg hold and route etc....

 

Bottom line, What "MODE" is he flying it in the footage that has no Desired Heading Cue?


Edited by mac495
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Ok, i have a small issue which i don't understand.

 

- I bring up the Flight Control View (red square lower left)

- I press the trim button, make my move, release trim and re-center.

Let's say that ban and yaw are still at zero and that i have a pitch 10° nose down. The diamond on the FCV then moves upwards to it's new trimposition and stays there.

- I make a very small move forward on the cyclic to have a 12° pitch down and then hit the trim button and re-center the cyclic.

 

Why does the helicopter "sometimes" makes a nose dive to around 20° pitch the moment i hit the trim button? (the diamond on the FCV stays exactly at the same spot and does not move upwards).

 

The same can happen in the other direction when reducing airspeed.

I press the trimbutton

Pull back on the cyclic to bring the nose up to 10° (and lower the collective) in order to reduce speed.

I find that i need to "brake" a little more so i pull back the cyclic a bit more so the heli has a 12° nose up pitch and then i hit the trim button and center the cyclic again.

The moment i hit the trimbutton, the heli sometimes pitches up to 20°...

 

Why?

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Why does the helicopter "sometimes" makes a nose dive to around 20° pitch the moment i hit the trim button? (the diamond on the FCV stays exactly at the same spot and does not move upwards).

 

Are you centering the stick quick enough? I believe Matt has a movie up explaining this issue. You push forward on the stick and release the trim, if you recenter the stickto slowly it will add the forward position to the trimmed location. However, because you are centering after that it will move back to the trimmed position.

 

I flew alot of practise flights with the joystick indicator on (right ctrl + enter) to show your inputs. I flew from location to location, picking a spot where i wanted to be in hover looking at a certain point. Doing that over and over again really worked for me.

 

stevie

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If you're not using a forcefeedback stick, check out my glovePIE profile in the link below. There's also a thread I started in the mod section.

 

The bobbing and wobbling you're experiencing is usually caused by one of two things: either the delay and recenter requirement not being fully taken advantage of when manually trimming when using a non-FFB stick, or because of the slightly overzealous modeling of instantaneous pitch/yaw verses continuous pitch/yaw stability. The two capabilities of any aircraft are never exactly the same, so there's always supposed to be some bounce or wobble when you exceed a simulated aircraft's continous pitch/yaw rate into a high instantaneous pitch or yaw, which quickly can't be sustained and forces you back to a lower rate...hence the bobbing or wobble effect.

 

I think it's probably a bit excessive in Blackshark, but at least it's there, right? It's kind of like the vortex ring modeling: it happens too easily at too high of speeds, but at least it's in there. Ditto with rotor bumping. ED seems to have erred slightly on the too much rather than on the not enough end of the flight model. Always a delicate balance to get it right in any sim, and it's not like we haven't had the opposite for long enough in combat helo sims. Just be a little more gentle and gradual, which is always a good flying habit.


Edited by Reticuli

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X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick

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I think it's probably a bit excessive in Blackshark, but at least it's there, right? It's kind of like the vortex ring modeling: it happens too easily at too high of speeds, but at least it's in there. Ditto with rotor bumping. ED seems to have erred slightly on the too much rather than on the not enough end of the flight model. Always a delicate balance to get it right in any sim, and it's not like we haven't had the opposite for long enough in combat helo sims. Just be a little more gentle and gradual, which is always a good flying habit.

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I have been getting better with trimming and hovering; now I am trying to do soft landings. I always have all 4 stabilizers on, but as I gradually decrease my altitude over the spot I want to land, as soon as I get within a few feet of landing, I start losing stability and the stabilizer lights start flashing. The end result is typically a crash if I don’t immediately increase collective and try and get altitude?

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Maybe if you have your Altitude Hold autopilot engaged it will go nuts if you try to descend for landing. Try turning Alt Hld off too see if that helps it.

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Good point, I will try that, I was also ready a thread about the use of the "decent" function. I have never used that, that may be part of it as well? Thanks

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Thanks,

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hi, ive been flying dcs quite a while now and trim like this:

for large and long changes in speed/direction etc hold the trim and release until your on your new course and fly stable, (no ADF). for small corrections just set new course and tap trim. for more acrobatic flight either ADF or hold the trim.

i NEVER have the altitude hold engaged because you will be fighting the autopilot more then that it will help u...also very important after hover mode, disengage the autopilots altitude hold), make sure when setting new routes, enroute mode is off and u have autoturn to target turned off.

 

imporant not to forget, if u change collective u also need to trim, also get used to watching if your gaining or losing altitude, when u have desired speed adjust with the collective to stop ascending or descending. sometimes after flying for a long time having used trim a lot it wil have accumulated errors (rudder inputs u dont want etc), it sometimes helps to reset the trim, if you feel the autopilot is acting weird...tapping trim several times when on a steady course can helps to sometimes...

 

Still...flying the black shark with a non FF stick is less then ideal imo, it feels unnatural and especially when u need to maneuver when under fire, trying to get the pipper back on target...i am usally so busy pressing trim and carebearing that stupid autopilot that i have no thumb left to release my weapons with. basically the trim/autopilot kills me at least as often as the enemy does....


Edited by hyperfighter
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Forward Cyclic on Trim button

 

I've searched through the Trim topic but can't find it. Ever since I've had BS, I've had NO problem trimming. I get it. I don't need an explanation how it works. But for some reason when I loaded up BS today, my trim keep adding forward cyclic, not matter what I input. I can be at a hover, with stick centered and press the trim button...it automatically adds forward cyclic and my helo nosedives.

 

I SWEAR I've never seen this before. All Autopilot modes off, FD off. But now I can't trim the way I've done before...I really can't trim at all now.

 

Did I screw something up somewhere?

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Could it be that your stick isn't centered? I would start with the control panel for your stick and move on from there. After that sit on the ramp and try different stick and trim stettings while referencing the control position indicator (Cntl-Enter).

 

Regards,

Smokin' Hole

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

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Can anyone tell me if this is correct behavior?

-HOVER trimmed, you can release hands.

-press trim , full left pedal , release trim ( and twist grip).

-full rotations to the left.

-then I hold trim down and input full right pedal.

-BUT only get half input , it will stop the rotations but slowly.

-If at that moment release trim, suddenly I have the full right pedal input trimmed.

 

I thought that when you press trim you should have full input in the controls... ??

In western helicopters I've flown at least.

 

Regards

Aser

AW-139 Pilot

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What i don't like is the rudder trim, everytime I change heading and trim to update the heading, I have to center the rudder and trim it again. I know its realistic, but with twist rudder on joystick it's hard to center the rudder :music_whistling: So either reset rudder trim button, or option to disable rudder trim would really help.

 

I don't want the trim disabled I just want something realistic. A pilot has his feet on the pedals which are displaced evenly when he steps in the chopper. If he applies full left rudder and trims, the rudder will be displaced fully to the left with his feet on the floor--so far so good. But that pilot will still be able to apply full right rudder although I'd guess he would experience some resistance as he overrides the trim. In Black Shark (and MAYBE the real Kamov--God Forbid!) the pilot does not have that right rudder/anti-torque authority until he trims some right rudder back. I hope this isn't how the Ka50 was designed. If so, I feel for the pilots flying the thing.

 

My Saitek pedals are not the same as that pilot's pedals--I understand that. But isn't there a way provide rudder trim but perhaps with very little authority--maybe just enough to keep the ball centered through the entire speed range but not enough to trim full deflection. In the meantime I just usually put my feet on the floor when I trim.

 

Smokin' Hole

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

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