Trimming the Ka-50

[EvilBivol-1]

T = Trim

 

LCTRL+T = Cancel Trim (unrealistic)

 

LALT+T = Toggle Autohover (realistic)

[sobek]

LCTRL+T = Cancel Trim (unrealistic)

 

Also not very useful when you have a FFB stick :D

[Talon]

Thanks.:thumbup:

[kaiserb_uk]

Trim and a Cougar

 

I've read the FAQ, I understand what's supposed to happen, but when I try and trim the stick I get further out of trim, not less? There's supposed to be this 'pause' where you center the stick after releasing the trim button - how long does it last?

 

Bit of a hurdle this, as flying is completely 'hands-on' at the moment and with the clickable pit, ABRIS etc I need to be able to let go every now and then!

 

English version btw.

[baksie]

hold your trim while you manouver. release when done.

I normally center stick let go of trim and then retrim.

[Groove]

Kaiserb_uk, push your trim button and immediately put the joystick into neutral position.

[ronht]

I've found that when I assign the trim to my Cougar button through the game interface that it works better than setting it up through the Foxy software.

 

Just assign a DX button to the button you want to use for the trim button and then go into the game and assign the trim there. Also make sure all the other "Joystick" buttons are cleared if you are using a Foxy profile.

 

Last but not least, understand that the trim operates differently when using different autopilot stabilization modes -

 

When in autopilot or autopilot stabilization mode, press the trim button, put your controls where you want them and let go.

 

When in the Flight Director mode with stabilization engaged, put the controls where you want them, press and release the trim button, and let the controls re-center.

 

This takes a bit of getting use to, however, once you do this thing really flies sweet! :D

 

enjoy

[kaiserb_uk]

Cracked it! Thanks for the help.

[Legolasindar]

I recommend you my Cougar Profile for BlackShark, in this have two options for trim, direct in BS or direct in Cougar.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=33583

[kaiserb_uk]

I spoke too soon. Is there a way of disabling Trim altogether? Because that what appears to be happening. If I start the weapon training mission and take control while on the runway (hot start) the trim functions perfectly (I can see the stick move as I release the trim button).

 

If I cold start in a mission, nothing. T does nothing. Ctl-T does nothing. Even if I use the cold start cheat, no trim at all. It's as if it needs turning on?

 

Could this be a bug? If it's only me then perhaps I need to reinstall?

[kaiserb_uk]

I recommend you my Cougar Profile for BlackShark, in this have two options for trim, direct in BS or direct in Cougar.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=33583

I'm already using it, it's very good. Nice work!

[kaiserb_uk]

Ah.

 

Q: My trim function is not working. When I hit the trim button and neutralize the joystick, the cyclic in the cockpit also returns to neutral.

 

A: If you have other controllers plugged in, such as a racing wheel, they are probably being recognized by the sim and are commanding the cyclic to recenter. You can try either unplugging the unused controllers or disabling the FF in-game function in the configuration files. To do so, open \...\Config\Producer.cfg and change the “ForceFeedbackEnabled” line from “true” to “false”.

 

RTFM then :)

[FuzzyWuzzyBear]

How to use AP/Trim on Final Approach (the real way)

 

I'm wondering how to use the AP function and trim on final approach like a real KA-50 pilot would. I'm now comfortable during normal navigational flight in using all four AP submodes and trimming and using the collective brake accordingly, but on final I either have to hold in the trim button AND the collective brake the whole time because of all the small corrections I have to make, or just turn off AP and use the flight director, which seems like a cop-out.

 

What's the best way to handle this? Use FD? Use AP without ALT HLD?

[Jalava]

I approach with ALT HLD off everything else on, no FD, because I want to control my descent profile by hand and it doesn't make any sense keeping ALT HLD on as you are going to zero any way :)

 

However, what is the proper approach method, i keep entering hover way too high every time and when I force by descent too much it's a vortex ring party way too easily :)

[FuzzyWuzzyBear]

I approach with ALT HLD off everything else on, no FD, because I want to control my descent profile by hand and it doesn't make any sense keeping ALT HLD on as you are going to zero any way :)

 

However, what is the proper approach method, i keep entering hover way too high every time and when I force by descent too much it's a vortex ring party way too easily :)

 

The first time I played this I basically flew it like EECH and did a hard descent that sent me spiralling out of control. I then ejected and walked around my bird, inspecting the damage. Nice.

 

As for not descending enough, the video training mission describes it pretty well. As long as your glideslope is correct you should be good, and if you're not sure, a little quick mental math never hurt...

Edited December 15, 2008 by FuzzyWuzzyBear

[AlphaOneSix]

I never hover down, or at least not so that it's very noticeable. I come in more or less like an airplane, just slower. I come over the edge of the landing point at about 6kph or so, and touch down, bottom the collective, and hit the brakes...then roll to a stop. Hovering down is such a pain.

[crazysundog]

Soon I'll try some pinnacle landings on tall buildings, but for now I land coming strait in....

[Highwayman-Ed]

I never hover down, or at least not so that it's very noticeable. I come in more or less like an airplane, just slower. I come over the edge of the landing point at about 6kph or so, and touch down, bottom the collective, and hit the brakes...then roll to a stop. Hovering down is such a pain.

 

Like AlphaOneSix says, bring it in more like a fixed wing at first.

 

The training video is a good reference for you, it describes how you should bleed altitude and speed the closer you get to the landing point, and like a fixed wing, have a landing point to aim for, not just "somewhere over there".

 

The more you keep that point in mind and sight, the more likely you are to land on it. Try aiming for the runway identification numbers.

[H-street]

Initial Takeoff Trim?

 

Loving the game, finally got the startup sequence down where i can do it in 45s or faster now..

 

Once i get airborn i am doing well, even landing isn't a problem..

 

my big problem seems to be the initial takeoff, when i go to hover my trim seems to be messed up, the helo will immedately either pitch back or yaw one direction..

 

how can i set my initial trim to be that of the current ground level?

[tusler]

Hi,

This has been addressed in other threads but basically what i understand is this type of rotor system trims completely different when on the ground or in a hover. If you have the stick set for a proper hover and you are on the ground I guess the helo will be moving and not sitting still. If you trim on the ground so the helo is still-not rolling with the brakes off, then when you hover you will be going backwards. i am learning to sense from sight and move the stick ever so slightly foreward as I lift off and when the drift is not to bad trim there, if you want to hover use auto hover otherwise you will go where the wind sends you, which is all over the place for me.:joystick:

[crazysundog]

Before i disengage my wheelbrake and pull collective, I trim with a little forward cyclic. To practice getting the right amount I would leave the wheelbrake on, and trim forward, then pull collective, and if done right... the nosewheel will lift off just before the main gear... Dont know if this is correct, just how i do it.

 

BTW, i use an X52

 

EDIT. Oh, and darnit Tusler, now I have to change my pic!! lol

Edited December 15, 2008 by crazysundog

[EvilBivol-1]

Q: Why does the helicopter pitch up?

[Mugatu]

Thanks EB, wondered why the chopper was pitching up so much on canceling trim. Deleting that from my sticks config :)

[Bucic]

Quick solution (?)

• RCtrl + Enter to turn on "controls indicators"
  
• if up/down arrow is working then use it to move stick position further ahead
  
• lift off!
  

[Jalava]

Trim Tutorial

 

Quick Tutorial on Flying the KA-50 with AP

 

There has been a lot of talk on how to trim properly, here is how I do it.

 

This tutorial is written using force feedback joystick, but principles are same technically.

 

Normal mode for flying the KA-50 is to keep the Pitch, Bank and HDG Hold autopilot channels on all the time.

When stabilizing into route altitude the ALT Hold autopilot is usually also activated.

Depending on flight profile and mission purpose you want to do this in BARO (constant sea level altitude)

or Radio (constant ground altitude) mode.

 

When flying the KA-50 in autopilot mode, there are three distinct modes of autopilotage:

- Autopilot Channel Hold (Normal mode)

- Route

- Route Descent (still bit unsure how this works, gotta read more, not explained here)

 

Understanding how the autopilot channel hold works is critical to flying KA-50 properly, so here

is how the beast works:

- Point nose, then click trim. Or press trim, point, release trim. Simple :)

 

Actually when you are in heli without touching anything and stick centered in middle of trim zone,

autopilot attempts to hold current pitch, bank and heading.

 

When you make changes to any of these attitudes (Note: not altitude, the way your heli points),

autopilot tries to fight back and correct back to the original attitude automatically.

 

To change attitude,

- either change direction and shortly press trim (normal method). After releasing trim autopilot now

assumes new attitude of helicopter and attempts to keep that.

- Or you can first press trim, then change direction and release trim. This is faster way to change

attitude but also more unstable and may cause oscillation and overshooting.

 

One thing to remember is that when changing the heading using rudder, you must first yaw to the correct

hdg and then correct the counter-yaw effect by keeping the direction and releasing rudder slowly. I recommend

keeping trim pressed down while yawing.

 

Trimming while having rudder down in over 20% will trim some continuous yaw in and

autopilot is going to have hard time keeping the heading when in route and you might experience some

sideways slipping while flying routes.

 

This may feel too rigid for most helipilots, but as KA-50 is mainly for support operations, most of the attacks are performed

many kilometers away from ingress point by slowing down at initial point and then searching for targets and attacking while

holding constant speed into wanted attack direction. This may be towards target zone, if doing overfly & turn. Or you might want a

slow strafe across the targeting area while spewing missiles and rockets.

 

Simple example:

SPD 0, HDG 000, Pitch 0, Bank 0, Alt 250R (radio), ALT HLD activated with collective brake set at 250R, all AP channels on.

 

For simplicity lets presume that pitch 0 will hover KA-50 perfectly.

 

Now in this state chopper hovers in current location automatically and you don't need to touch anything.

 

Accelerating to 200KM/H:

 

- From here, push yoke forwards and wait for 200KM/H speed to come. When arriving at 200KM/H click trim and release pressure slightly

on yoke. Do it slowly and AP will correct your pitch into attitude that will hold 200KM/H regardless of changing winds etc.

 

- If done slowly enough and correctly, altitude will stay in 250 meters with no change in collective. However you might need to

give slight addition to collective because 20% range in servo might not be enough to keep the height. Giving bit extra won't

cause initial climb because AP will counter-correct this until BS starts sinking.

 

Turning:

 

- When turning, push rudder and wait for correct heading. When arriving correct heading push trim down and then release pressure

on rudder slowly to stop yaw at correct heading, when rudder is completely up, release trim.

- You should now be pointing at your new direction with little or now counter-yaw

- Banking slightly while doing the turn will lessen counter-yaw effect and is faster.

 

Changing altitude:

- Let's say we want to ascent to 1000M Baro.

- Increase collective slightly and disengage ALT HLD

- You should now be entering in controlled climb.

- When arriving at correct altitude, activate ALT HLD and activate Collective Break at correct altitude.

- Also remember to release collective to slow down to the altitude or you will overshoot.

 

Flying route:

- First remember to set first WPT correctly in ABRIS. This has no effect on route, but you can follow your

vertical profile in ABRIS this way. By default, WPT is set to start airfield and is not update on route automatically

if not set to point at first WPT. To do this, go NAV->FPL->rotate knob to select first WPT and press WPT. Return to NAV.

- First turn to correct heading by hand and start accelating.

- Enter Route mode by pressing R.

- Autopilot will now handle bank and hdg channels according to route. You still need to handle pitch for speed and

collective to manage vertical profile.

 

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but this i how I keep my 50 in air stable :)