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Semi-clickable flaming cliffs and future FF modules


upyr1

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46 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:
6 hours ago, upyr1 said:

They have landing gear, flaps, hud brightness, and the like which would be easier to access in VR if they were clickable. They have some just not a lot. 

Most players use HOTAS controls for these. 

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, methinks 🙂 

 

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14 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, methinks 🙂 

 

I get the point. But these are $7 aircraft modules and aren’t worth the investment. And again ED already said they had no plans for this…

Also DCS isn’t really a “VR Game”. If it was then certainly having everything controllable via VR controllers would be a must. But that’s not what this game is. 


Edited by SharpeXB

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57 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I get the point. But these are $7 aircraft modules and aren’t worth the investment. And again ED already said they had no plans for this…

Also DCS isn’t really a “VR Game”. If it was then certainly having everything controllable via VR controllers would be a must. But that’s not what this game is. 

 

Off topic: Suggesting that DCS isn't really a VR game because it has no full VR controller support, is of course a nonsense argument 😅

As if VR controller support is mandatory for VR games? I play a few VR games (racing sims and Flight sims), but I've never had to use the VR controllers for any of them (in fact, they only left the box during initial setup).

 

On topic: Although I do own them, personally I never fly the FC3 modules, so I don't care but also wouldn't mind the OP's suggestion. I do wonder however, where would you want to put the limit on the clickable cockpit? Only gear and flaps would probably not add much/enough, but then.. Which switches should be made clickable and which not? A 1000 players a 1000 wishes I expect. On the other hand, but this has probably already been discussed elsewhere, why not just make all switches clickable that already have a key bind at the moment? What's the difference between pressing a keyboard key, or a virtual switch? It can't be confidentiality related, is it? (It would perhaps be a lot of coding work, which is arguable as these are indeed cheap modules)

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15 minutes ago, sirrah said:

Off topic: Suggesting that DCS isn't really a VR game because it has no full VR controller support, is of course a nonsense argument 😅

As if VR controller support is mandatory for VR games? I play a few VR games (racing sims and Flight sims), but I've never had to use the VR controllers for any of them (in fact, they only left the box during initial setup).

 

On topic: Although I do own them, personally I never fly the FC3 modules, so I don't care but also wouldn't mind the OP's suggestion. I do wonder however, where would you want to put the limit on the clickable cockpit? Only gear and flaps would probably not add much/enough, but then.. Which switches should be made clickable and which not? A 1000 players a 1000 wishes I expect. On the other hand, but this has probably already been discussed elsewhere, why not just make all switches clickable that already have a key bind at the moment? What's the difference between pressing a keyboard key, or a virtual switch? It can't be confidentiality related, is it? (It would perhaps be a lot of coding work, which is arguable as these are indeed cheap modules)

The limit would be the systems that are currently modeled in DCS that have a cockpit switch. I ultimatly want to see the flaming cliffs aircraft replaced with FF modules. I understand that the Su-25T will probably never be a FF module. Though since I don't think the T really went out of the prototype it might be. Anyway something like the clickable FC mod


Edited by upyr1
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17 minutes ago, sirrah said:

Which switches should be made clickable and which not?

A good question, and I think what is currently available is enough - meaning no radio controls etc. FC3 functionality is fine. 'All' I'd like to see is some enhanced (visual) button feedback to those functions that are implemented for FC3. For example Otto. A handful of buttons, for most of the airframes; almost all of them already implement some visual feedback, but not all (meaning, in the A-10A you cannot see - by visually inspecting the auto pilot switches - if and which otto is active). Other visual feedback is already there, for example gear lever 

I'd be happy with that.


Edited by cfrag
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16 minutes ago, sirrah said:

On the other hand, but this has probably already been discussed elsewhere, why not just make all switches clickable that already have a key bind at the moment?

Go back to the 1st page, ED already said they have no plans for this. The question isn’t whether clickable cockpit are useful or not, it’s whether FC3 is worth the effort at this stage. 

On 5/13/2022 at 3:44 PM, Silver_Dragon said:

ED has none plans to improve FC3 or get more funtionality on cockpit clicable.

 

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23 minutes ago, sirrah said:

Suggesting that DCS isn't really a VR game because it has no full VR controller support, is of course a nonsense argument

Flaming Cliffs 3 was/is not a “VR Game”. It’s a 2D game with VR support shoehorned onto it. Obviously using a keyboard for a VR game isn’t ideal at all. The fact that it uses keyboard input should tell you it’s not really intended as a VR game. 

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6 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Go back to the 1st page, ED already said they have no plans for this. The question isn’t whether clickable cockpit are useful or not, it’s whether FC3 is worth the effort at this stage. 

 

I saw the post, however plans can change.  It is important to remember that Eagle Dynamics, just like any other company exists to make money by supplying their customers with something. In this case a simulator. The second part of the post's title is asking for FF modules in the future, so ED skips the first and rolls out the FF modules I will buy them

On 5/13/2022 at 3:44 PM, Silver_Dragon said:

ED has confirmed the Mig-29 Module, after Ka-50-2, and coming as a Full Fidelity module. ED has none plans to improve FC3 or get more funtionality on cockpit clicable.

Do you think we'll get the A-10A and F-15C. 

1 minute ago, SharpeXB said:

Flaming Cliffs 3 was/is not a “VR Game”. It’s a 2D game with VR support shoehorned onto it. Obviously using a keyboard for a VR game isn’t ideal at all. The fact that it uses keyboard input should tell you it’s not really intended as a VR game. 

That's why I'm asking for a semi clickable cockpit, to improve VR support. 

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9 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

I saw the post, however plans can change.

If you've been around DCS long enough, you’ll realize that the things they are actively working on take many many years to accomplish. So something they say they have no plans for? Not likely to happen anytime soon. 

15 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

That's why I'm asking for a semi clickable cockpit, to improve VR support. 

Maybe in MAC? I get the impression that FC3 is at it’s end of life as far as development is concerned. If MAC embraced VR yes I’d expect to see some sort of VR controller interactive support. 

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2 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

ED has talk has none plans to build a FC-4, that only coming with MAC.

The animated cockpics was presents from FC-3 released, but was only partial and missing many of them..

MAC is basically FC 4

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17 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

But this would still have to be paid for and thence still raise the cost of FC. If ED wanted this functionality they could have included it themselves but they already said they have no plans to do anything like this.
And these aircraft modules have no functions which require a clickable cockpit. They don’t have radio channels to switch or any functions in their cockpit panels or screens etc. 

Unlike your previous post, this one doesn't come packaged using the same logic.

Nothing would change!

ED could go on to continue selling the FC3 package as long as there were customers wanting to buy it, and still nothing would change.

The mod in this case would be a paid for add-on that individual customers would decide if they want to purchase, or not.

ED would get its share from the transaction, but they would have no maintenance/development responsibilities for the mod. 

Regarding whether FC3 planes have functions that require/could use click... I recommend you revisit the FC3 if you have it. Saying that FC3 planes have less need for a clickable cockpit is one thing, but saying that they have NO functions that could use a click would be stretching it a bit. The decision to purchase the mod would be up to the individual player. You for example might not be interested in adding this functionality to your FC3 module, but thousands of other users might be.

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2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

If you've been around DCS long enough, you’ll realize that the things they are actively working on take many many years to accomplish. So something they say they have no plans for? Not likely to happen anytime soon. 

Maybe in MAC? I get the impression that FC3 is at it’s end of life as far as development is concerned. If MAC embraced VR yes I’d expect to see some sort of VR controller interactive support. 

I expect that out of the thousands of players that have purchased the FC3 package, some of them are VR users, and will continue to use VR even after ED releases the upcoming core features meant to improve its use. I don't think we need to wait for MAC to see how this mod is going to help those people use their FC3 package in VR.

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5 minutes ago, Callsign112 said:

ED would get its share from the transaction, but they would have no maintenance/development responsibilities for the mod.

If customers paid for the mod then ED would indeed have to maintain it. In the end it’s exactly the same situation as charging more for FC3.

8 minutes ago, Callsign112 said:

I recommend you revisit the FC3 if you have it

I have used FC planes and just assigned everything to a HOTAS and a few keyboard commands. No need for clicking on anything. 

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Just now, SharpeXB said:

If customers paid for the mod then ED would indeed have to maintain it. In the end it’s exactly the same situation as charging more for FC3.

That's a good point, but I suspect that is where the partnership would come in.

ED wouldn't maintain it, the third party Dev would.

ED would just provide the third party with a large built-in customer base from which it draws sales from.

ED would get a percentage of the transaction, but the third party would get paid for the product and maintenance it delivers to DCS customers.

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7 minutes ago, Callsign112 said:

I don't think we need to wait for MAC to see how this mod is going to help those people use their FC3 package in VR.

Indeed they don’t. They can use this mod now for free so why should ED work on anything?

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Just now, SharpeXB said:

Indeed they don’t. They can use this mod now for free so why should ED work on anything?

Oh sorry @SharpeXB, I thought you were following along in the thread.

The discussion point was an argument to have talented mods like the one that just released the ability to use clicks with FC3 planes as official modules so guys like me would buy it.

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2 minutes ago, Callsign112 said:

ED wouldn't maintain it, the third party Dev would.

My guess is most modders don’t want to be in the business of selling a product and having customers. They’re just hobbyists doing this for fun. Getting paid adds a lot of complications. 

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Well you have a point there, and I think it seems to be a growing trend... work for free.

But that was the point I started my contribution to this thread on, and it leaves me wondering, is it because the mods themself don't have the resources needed to commercialize their work, or do more of them fall into the category of wanting to just do it as a hobby?

If its the because they don't have the resources, then given the long development cycles, ED could possibly benefit from helping some of these guys out.


Edited by Callsign112
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3 hours ago, cfrag said:

A good question, and I think what is currently available is enough - meaning no radio controls etc. FC3 functionality is fine. 'All' I'd like to see is some enhanced (visual) button feedback to those functions that are implemented for FC3. For example Otto. A handful of buttons, for most of the airframes; almost all of them already implement some visual feedback, but not all (meaning, in the A-10A you cannot see - by visually inspecting the auto pilot switches - if and which otto is active). Other visual feedback is already there, for example gear lever 

I'd be happy with that.

 

I would be interested to know if you are running open beta, or stable, and have you run into any conflicts yet?

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18 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

If customers paid for the mod then ED would indeed have to maintain it. In the end it’s exactly the same situation as charging more for FC3.

I have used FC planes and just assigned everything to a HOTAS and a few keyboard commands. No need for clicking on anything. 

FC-3 has a license product and ED maintan them. ED has no talk nothing about "defunt" FC-3.

Someone need remember any mod cant get any reward by EULA. Only license 3rd parties and ED products can get a reward.
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25 minutes ago, Callsign112 said:

I would be interested to know if you are running open beta, or stable, and have you run into any conflicts yet?

Open Beta, no issues so far. Using VR I can 'click' on the correct buttons/switches by looking at them, and the cursor correctly turns into a green clock or click indicator. Works very well, but I did not have had enough time to stress-test this, so take with a grain of salt 🙂 

Installation was quick, into a dedicated folder in /tech. You'll see it it installed correctly if the logo appears, and it has its own section in the 'Special' tab so you can selectively disable the airframes. Upon mission start, it will tell you the version and airframe it detected.

-ch

 


Edited by cfrag
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  • ED Team

Hi all, 

As a free mod that does not break our EULA it is some impressive work.

However we have no plans to make FC3 clickable officially, and there are no plans for future flaming cliffs aircraft. 

thank you

 

 

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